This Is Why I Hate Traffic Police In Vietnam (Updated)
This Is Why I Hate Traffic Police In Vietnam (Updated)
Charlie Pryor
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I Really Am Saying “Screw The Police”… In Vietnam
Infectious diseases are more worthy of society acknowledgement than the filth that wears the tan clown costumes on the streets of Vietnam. They stand on the street like prostitutes, only their customers don’t enjoy their services. The primary quest of a Vietnamese traffic cop is to cause inconvenience, inconsistent disregard for citizen interests, to instill the worst possible system of corruption ever witnessed by this American writer, and above all else, protect no one but themselves, ever. A stark contrast to a police officer in the United States: there is no protect and serve here, unless you count the protection of self, and the service of the same. Make no mistakes about it people: traffic police in Vietnam are not people. They are as valuable to society as rats in the sewers… In fact, worse than the rats, since the rats stay out of sight and don’t affect me at all.Clearly, somebody had a run-in with the law. In this case, it was not me, but Hang’s father instead. We were pulled over for nothing, told something stupid, and then forced to pay lunch money to crooks with guns. Sounds like a New York City mugging, but this was in broad daylight, and had far more government support. [gallery columns="2" link="file" type="square" ids="4148,4145"] Cops here can and will stop anyone, for any reason, or no reason at all. This is permitted by law, the way the system is currently set up. They will stop you, and there is no such thing as a warning. You will lose money and time as a result of this system too. While Vietnamese law doesn’t ‘technically’ allow for such treatment of their citizens from law enforcement, the oversight of police officers is virtually non-existent, as is any form of “internal affairs” as we have here. While some police are held accountable in this country (although not nearly accountable enough), Vietnamese traffic police are nothing more than predators out for wealthy prey…
They pull over everyone, asking for a bribe
They pull over everyone. Scooters, cars, commercial trucks, and even buses full of people on their way someplace. The rate of their bribe depends on numerous factors, but any inclination that they can get a good amount of money out of a driver will lead to a traffic stop. No violation is required, and even when there is one, proof of violation doesn’t have to be provided. To add to that, you don’t have the option to dispute the charges, and if you do anything but admit fault, your fines go up. Insubordination isn’t tolerated, and that’s precisely what “I didn’t do that” or “it wasn’t me” is to them. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zawe46IBMiQ So what happens when you get pulled over? Well, as you can probably guess, you are told by ‘law enforcement’ to pull your vehicle to the side of the road. You’re likely flagged down by a man wearing a tan uniform waving a stick around. Then you’re expected to get out of the vehicle (a stark contrast to America) and walk over to wear the police have set up camp (it’s essentially what it is). From there, you speak with ‘law enforcement’ about what your fine ‘could’ be if you pay them money. It’s not uncommon to have your actual offense left out of the conversation until you ask, and even then… it’s sometimes complete bullshit. If you want to argue about it, it’ll just make your fine go up, and make things more inconvenient for you. From that point you have two choices: Pay the bribe (easier, and usually less expensive), or take the ticket (usually more expensive, and a pain in the ass). As you’ve probably guessed by the notations in the parentheses there, it’s usually a smart idea to just pay the bribe, even if it does fuel the corruption in the system further. If you don’t pay them fast enough, or if (like the video above) you’re caught videotaping, or somebody else is video taping, you won’t get the bribe as an option anymore. You’ll simply get a ticket. Technically, bribes are not legal in Vietnam, and an officer being caught accepting them on tape will be relieved of his job. A video is pretty damning evidence. Without paying the bribe, you’ll certainly get a ticket. When you do, your license will be confiscated, or the ownership papers to your vehicle (depending on a variety of conditions). You’ll then be handed a slip of paper in return, stating what you owe, when you need to pay it, etc. If you cannot pay it right away, it’s not a big deal, but if you’re on a road trip, and you’re several hours away from home, you’re going to want to pay it immediately. that’s because you have to report, in person, to the police station designated on the slip of paper you’ve been given. That location, is usually the closest station to where you were pulled over, thus, driving back to a far away location is a terrible economic decision, usually. [charliead]Process of getting your license back:
First you’ll need to take the paper you were given (the ticket) to the location listed on the paper (the police station). Then, after you’ve paid the ticket, you’ll receive another slip stating that you paid it, and your ownership papers or license will be returned to you. This sounds like a fairly straightforward system on this end… until you start talking about those times where you want to pay it right away. Since the police station doesn’t have information on your ticket yet, and they haven’t yet received your license or vehicle papers, you aren’t going to be able to get it back at the police station. When Hang’s father was pulled over during my first trip to Vietnam, for example, the process went something like this: [caption id="attachment_4150" align="aligncenter" width="630"]
Here’s what it looked like from my seat the first time…[/caption]
- Get pulled over, exit the vehicle, and speak to cops – 5 minutes
- Be told that we were speeding (2km over the limit, which is like driving 51 in a 50mph zone), and that they had us speeding 3 km back (a long ways back).
- Three police officers, each wanting a cut, wanted a bribe of 100,000VND each ($5USD each). Hang’s father refused to pay that much.
- Police officers took his license, and gave him a ticket for $400,000VND ($20USD). We were instructed to get into the car, and then drive to the police station in the next town – 5 more minutes speaking to cops, then 15 minute drive
- Next town police station wasn’t open until 1pm local time. It was currently 11:45am.
-
[caption id="attachment_4151" align="aligncenter" width="486"]
It’s a cozy place with cheap drinks.[/caption] - We waited around at a restaurant down the street, talked and had some cold drinks in the heat – 1 hour 10 minutes
- We got back into the car, and drove towards the police station. We had to park across the road from it, as there was no street parking available outside it (it was a gated building as well). – 5 minutes
- Hang’s father got out of the van, and walked across the ‘avenue’ that was there (two one-way streets, with a grassy divide in the middle), and proceeded to approach the building. – 5 minutes
- Security asked him some questions about his visit, and then let him inside. He would remain inside for about 10 more minutes before exiting the police station.
- He received instructions that he had to have documents checked by people in another building, which just happened to be the building we were parked in front of. He walked across the street again, and walked around the wall in front of us and into the other building. He wouldn’t appear again for another 8-10 minutes.
- After all this time, Hang’s father was given another slip, proving that he paid the ticket (which was more than the bribe). He then had to walk back across the street, and back into the police station for this receipt of payment to be stamped. Still don’t quite understand why that’s necessary, but it apparently is.
- After another 10 minutes or so, Hang’s father finally returned to the car, with a slip of paper that could be traded for his license. Of course, the police officers that took his license haven’t yet returned to the police station, and are still out pulling people over on the highway.
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[caption id="attachment_4152" align="aligncenter" width="486"]
Driving back to the cops that stopped us. Oh joy…[/caption] - We drove the opposite direction of where we want to go, back to the police on the side of the road. – 15 minutes
- He pulled over to the side of the road, and got out of the car. Walked over to the police and gave them proof of payment. After about a 2-3 minute talk, Hang’s father was given back his license, and was free to go.
- We turned around, and traveled back towards the town we just came from, and then through it. It would have been on our way anyways – 15 more minutes
“Do you know why I pulled you over sir?? Yes, I forgot money for lunch, that’s correct.”[/caption]
This second trip, we were stopped again, which is where this video above comes from. Dad had to wait until January 3 to get it back this time, because of the holidays. That was about 10 days. During this 10-day period, he wouldn’t have been allowed to drive his vehicle, and we would have had a very hard time getting around to friends and relatives were were supposed to meet as a result of losing his license. However, Hang’s father told the police a little bit about where he worked and such, and given that it was a large company, the police took his vehicle papers instead. The ticket can substitute for vehicle papers on a temporary basis, and this allowed him to retain his ability to drive.
Like Trolls at the Bridge
Police don’t care about traffic. They don’t care about how heavy it is, or how much they’ll inconvenience people. You could be basically stopped in traffic, and they’ll still come and heckle you. There will be huge blockages of traffic, backed up for miles, because large numbers of traffic cops are making stops all day, holding up the flow. Vehicles weren’t going fast enough to ever cause a risk to safety, and certainly not over the limit. But, if you changed lanes without a signal, these sharks will stop you then and there, and try to get money out of you. [caption id="attachment_4144" align="aligncenter" width="600"]
“Yes, you in the stopped car in the middle of traffic… I need to speak to you!”[/caption]
There is no safety risk here. Nothing dangerous at all. The only risk to safety was the clowns in the tan suits, waving their sticks around at every vehicle they wanted. It was like the TSA’s random security checks, only instead of frisking you and searching through your luggage, they just demand payment to continue, like a troll at the bridge. They are about as useful as the TSA too… they never catch anyone doing anything dangerous. Of course, that’s when dummies chime in and say “them being there is a deterrent from evil.” No people… they are the evil, making a living by taking from normal folks just trying to earn a living. We usually call those people “crooks” or “thieves.”
In Vietnam, they spell thief: “C-S-G-T” (Translated in English: “P-O-L-I-C-E”).
UPDATE: This article is really having some unintended consequences for me. Please read this article for more information
UPDATE 2: There have been a lot of people reading this wrong, and some websites have translated what I’ve said here very poorly. Please read this for my follow-up to this article, which explains what people are getting wrong.]]>You might be interested in
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The procedure you mentioned is a “deterrent” for those who refuse to bribe. And for more information the whole police system is based on bribery. Those so called police you mentioned bribed the higher up lots of money for the job. There’s very few decent man in the force, mainly due to the low pay. And also because of such reason you can say that almost the whole system is corrupted, not just the police force.
aconcernedcitizen Oh yeah for sure. It’s not a good system, and we know the whole place is corrupt. It’s a bit lower key than the US, but still a much lower scale. Vietnamese corruption hits people with $20 fines on the roads when they drive around town every now and then. US corruption takes people’s homes away from them, and forces poverty while the people responsible live with Billion Dollar bank accounts.
Bad system either way, but this one was new to me, and I was caught in a profound sense of anger that it was allowed to continue without contest.
Did you know that if they can make up some sort of violation which allows them to take your vehicle/motorcycle back to their station and hold it for a night or two, they have a “team” that will switch out the genuine parts and replace those with cheap stuffs too?
Yeah! Thank you for posting this, I’m Vietnamese and I hate this a lot, most of all Vietnamese people now hate traffic police as hell! so sad but true! 🙁
YoungN OMG I had no idea about that part! Wow… I… I have no words for this, if it’s true.
Haha sad but true my Vietnam!!!
As a vietnamese , i allow you to call these traffic cops a-holes . they will be thinking of thousands of reason to make you pay . If you don’t – “i have to take the vehicle , sir/kid ” . Some people even hide in a tree , wait for the time to “strike” .
as a Vietnamese, i feel the same too. and I totally agree with you. The main reason is because of the government’s management…. So many horrible things this country is having and I feel so bad every day. 1. In VN, if you want to become police, you must be religionless, especially, if you are a Catholic or Christian, you can not become police unless you deny to be a Catholic on Identify card or any legal document. Dictatorship just brings the worst things, as I just told you. Most of police are bad guys indeed.
2. You need to give money for the seniors to become a police, and the amount is not small.
3. The new polices can stand anytime on the streets to catch the drivers and ask for money within 3 months, after that, they can not stand all the time any more. The thing is many Vietnamese people accept that and don’t want to spend time for going to government’s bank to pay the fines.
Charlie Pryor YoungN It true, i guarantee
I have no idea …
One scabby sheep is enough to spoil the whole flock. But my Vietnam still beautiful 🙂
P/s : C – S – G -T (Cảnh Sát Giao Thông) only stand for traffic police, not all police 🙂
and … This article will bring many many exile reactionaries haha, trust me haha xD
Charlie Pryor aconcernedcitizen I’m sure Vietnamese gorvement take people’s home too, especially in the country side. You can search for Eco park. They even use police and force to do so.
Kim Anh Nguyen đi quá xa rồi bạn 🙂
Tin Nguyen Quang Kim Anh Nguyen Xa chỗ nào? Toàn sự thật.
haha in my country cops aka thief
that’s too bad
I’m sorry for the bad experiences you had in our country but… the first and last pictures were in Ha Noi, the capital, north of Viet Nam while the video and other pictures are from the West. I can assure you that traffic in big cities, especially Ha Noi are more fair and what you experienced happens only in the suburbs. However we will try to fix corrupted cops in the suburbs as well as much as we can do. Thank you for visiting Viet Nam and if you decide to come to our country next time I wish you a good trip.
Best regards.
I find that most (90%) of your information are true,however I do believe the rotten cops are not the only reason
1.Most of Vietnamese people are clueless about the traffic law,the liscence test is soooo easy that almost a chimpanzee can get it ,result in many people driving on the street don’t even know what they are doing.In other hand,reckless driving,speeding are the main reason causing so much accident in my country
Vietnamese people also get use to bribing (it’s in their blood),most of them don’t want any trouble ,wasting money is hell better than getting a ton of trouble in your face.This allow the rotten cop take advantage of them,even they have no fault they would rather pay money to solve the problem.
2.The paying of the traffic cop is not good ,and they have the so called “ranking” system that mean if you are low rank or you don’t give your senior enough bribe money (very huge amount) ,you are going to stand in the hot ,dusty street all day ,taking all the dust in your lung (cop not allowed to wear dust mask) . So when someone get higher enough to “make” money ,they want to take as much money as they can to payback (this money also get split to their senior cops)
The cops ,either they become rotten to make a living or they will live a poor life with chronic pneumonia.
KugaKururo Our experience with police were only in big cities, aside from the story told regarding a trip through the country (Ha Noi and Ho Chi Minh City). The video, as you can see, is in Ho Chi Minh City. My wife’s side of the family is central Ho Chi Minh. It isn’t limited to the outskirts. Our experience thus far has been in every type of area, both inner city and country.
It is a large problem that goes beyond the police themselves. It’s the system that’s been established.
In Vietnam if u have high Army rank they will shut up and let you go.
Like the”prostitute” part
Kim Anh Nguyen DinhXuanNguyenđúng sự thật cái kon mẹ mày , bọn não chó không biết suy nghĩ thì đừng có sủa nhiều , họ bảo vệ bọn mày mà bọn mày ko hiểu . Nếu ko sai thì ai phạt đc bọn mày . Còn cái cảnh sát đứng đường này á , bằng biếc không tốt mới bị bắt như thề này , cần gì xin ai
Hoàn toàn sai sự thật . Có cảnh sát tốt nhưng cũng có cảnh sát không tốt và cảnh sát ở nước tôi họ không có súng . Ở đâu chả thế việc gì cứ ở Việt Nam . Họ có thể bắt bạn dừng lại vì bạn quên xi nhanh , quên đội mũ bảo hiểu hay kiểm tra giấy tờ xem bạn đã có bằng lái xe chưa hoặc đây có phải xe của bạn không . Nếu bạn không sai thì không ai có thể bắt bạn được , Việt Nam là 1 nước dân chủ mà . Người viết bài này chỉ là 1 người ngoại quốc , anh ấy không hiểu hết được đất nước chúng tôi mà chỉ nghe qua tai của 2 người bạn mà anh tin tưởng . Khu tôi sống không hề có những cảnh sát nhưng anh viết . Họ đơn giản chỉ là những người bảo vệ sự an toàn cho mọi người mà thôi . Chỉ có những tên tội phạm hoặc người không biết suy nghĩ mới cho rằng họ là ” Những kẻ lừa đảo ” hoặc là ” Những kẻ trộm ”
Những ai không hiểu mình đã google dịch sẵn :
Completely untrue. There are good police but also not good police and police in my country they do not have guns. Where could never do any work in Vietnam. They can force you to stop because you forgot xi fast, forget helmet or check out papers if you have a driving license yet or if it’s not your car. If you do wrong, nobody can catch you is, Vietnam is one country where democracy. The writing is only one foreigner, he does not fully understand that our country is only heard through the ears of two people that I trust you. Area I live there are no police, but he writes. They simply are the ones who protect the security of people only. Details
All the criticism in this article are all bad, shallow understanding
Charlie Pryor YoungN 30 days or more. Enough to destroy your beautiful motorbikes and cars. It is the worst case. Who knows what can be done inside their station, right?
Mai Quang Hoa U should LEARN ENGLISH first!
Mai Quang Hoa Vô học, sản phẩm của nền văn hóa bị cộng sản tẩy não
Charlie Pryor aconcernedcitizen I know there are a lot of good cops aroudn the country. But, there will be two types of them. The first one is the type of old people who live with dreams of a socialist nation. You can find them in socialist countries, they are good men. I am afraid they already quit their jobs now. The second kind is the guyz who live peacefully with local people, especially in far away lands. Maybe, the main reason is that their communities are small so they cannot do anything bad and they don’t want to do such thing as well. Honestly, if their seniors don’t ask for bribe, some of them will be the good guys they used to be. Not all students take the entrance university exam for being someone powerful and rich, some of them have their dreams of being a hero. Life is cruel, their dreams just disappear.
TabiNo người VN vs nhau nói tiếng việt đi thím =))
Mai Quang Hoa Chị nói chuẩn đấy, Cảnh sát có người tốt người xấu. Em đã gặp nhiều công an rồi va đúng là, toàn người xấu, thậm chí chính những người trong ngành cũng tự chửi họ mà.
Bạn nên đi học anh văn cho giỏi nhá…Google dịch không ai hiểu bạn nói gì đâu
Toan rất ức chế mấy thằng phản động , tự tin vs chình dân tộc mình
Mai Quang Hoa Toan Lên đây chửi thì tự khẳng định độ ngu mà thôi. Đến nối blog nước ngoài phải viết thế này mà ko biết nhục mà sửa, cứ khăng khăng đúng là sao nhỉ!
ThomasNguzen đm tôi là nam mak` thím . Ở đâu chả thế có riêng gì cảnh sát , người ngoài đường cũng nói xấu nhau đầy . Nam Định khu tôi sống đâu có như vậy . Đó là sự giáo dục cảu mỗi gia đình thôi
LinhGia mik ms lớp 9 mak` thím . Từ ngữ có hạn google dịch cho nhanh 🙂
Mai Quang Hoa LinhGia Em trai mới lơp 9 à. Thảo nào giống anh hồi xưa vãi, Nếu e còn chửi thì e còn non và xanh lắm, cố gắng hoàn thiện bản thân nhé. ko phải cái j xũng đúng đâu. Thân vkl
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Ảnh với tên con gái quá
Mai Quang Hoa Bạn chắc còn trẻ tuổi, không sao, khi nào bạn chín chắn sẽ hiểu. Yêu nước thì ai cũng yêu vậy cả, nhưng chính trị ở đất nước này nó không đồng hành với lòng yêu nước cũng như lợi ích dân tộc, nhân dân. Bạn tự tin với dân tộc cũng như mình tự tin với dân tộc, nhưng dân tộc lại đang bị đầu độc bởi những tư tưởng chính trị cổ hủ, lạc hậu, phản động.
Toan nó là sùng ngoại bạn ak’ . Không quá bên vực dân tộc mình nhưng đừng để tha hóa . Xem ngoại là nhất
ThomasNguzen Ảnh là yasou tự vẽ , tên là Hòa ( cả 2 đều con trai nhé )
ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa Thông tin nhiều nguồn cho tôi biết ….Người tốt họ đã ko phải mất vài trăm triệu để vào được nghành CSGT này ….tốn tiền nhiều như vậy …thỉ bẳng mọi cách phải lấy lại từ người dân thôi….tóm lại CSGT toàn là thứ tệ hơn xấu…người Mỹ họ ví thua loài chuột cống cũng không có gì là oan uổng
ThomasNguzen ăn gì mak` tự tin vậy bạn , ai thèm chửi tục tĩu mak` non xanh
Mai Quang Hoa Toan Nhưng bạn cũng phải biết là Việt nam mình chẳng có cái gì cả. Sùng ngoại là điều hiển nhiên. Ở VN có thể bạn cảm thấy tự hào về nét đẹp này nọ của Việt nam.Nhưng khi bạn ra nước ngoài, bạn sẽ thấy chảng ai quan tâm đến VN cả, họ chỉ nghĩ là VN chỉ là đất nước bình thường ko có gì nổi bật cả. Nên VN cần thay đồi rất rất nhiều đấy.!
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Tưởng tên là Quang Hoa Mai chu
Mai Quang Hoa Cái chế độ chính trị bây giờ (mới tồn tại được vài chục năm) đâu có đại diện cho cả dân tộc (hàng ngàn năm lịch sử). Nếu các bạn có thể học, có thể làm theo được như những gì các nước tiên tiến đã làm và đang làm thì đã là quá vĩ đại rồi, sùng ngoại cũng được chả sao cả.
LinhGia khu mik sống người dân không như vậy nhé Mak` vào ngành thì phải học nhé , học ngu không đỗ thì làm gì có hối lộ ở đây mak` vào được . Đâu phải ở đâu cũng lý tưởng .HCM tệ vậy nhưng không có súng , bên Mĩ chạy nó bắn kìa
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Cái câu e chửi bọn phản động ở dưới ý. Chửi thì họ chỉ cười e thôi, Lớn rồi, tránh tình trạng trẻ trâu. Thân
ThomasNguzen tên tiếng anh phải là Hòa Mai Quang
ThomasNguzen trẻ trâu là mấy bọn viết cái này nhé . Hay là đông trẻ trâu giữa tập thể vậy
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Đủ rồi. Nhắc nhở vậy thôi
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Em ơi! Đừng viết nữa. Đừng làm xấu mặt người Việt. Có nhiều điều khi lớn lên mấy tuổi nữa em sẽ hiểu. Đừng để mọi người ở đây nghĩ em là Dư Luận Viên. Cứ để họ nghĩ em còn nhỏ nên… Never-Give-Up thôi.
Toan Nói về thay đổi chính trị với em nó không được đâu! kệ thế, để nó lớn hẳn cho nó dễ hiểu hơn
Mai Quang Hoa Đúng là không có chỗ nào lý tưởng hết, nhưng mà cái lý tưởng của Việt Nam mình nó ngang với cái lý tưởng của người Mỹ vào khoảng 200 năm trước rồi em ạ.
ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa Toan đất nước đang phát triển sùng ngoại là bài xíc sản phẩm mik , tăng thu nhập nước khác . Học kĩ bài đi nhé , người ta dặn phải biết cân bằng giữa ngoại và nội . Việt Nam là nước bé bị đô hộ bao năm sao nghĩ chính trị như ngu mak` ko cho phát triển
ThomasNguzen Toan mấy thím đừng nghĩ về tuổi nhé . Tuổi tác chưa chắn khẳng định được gì đâu
ThomasNguzen Toan Nói về chính trị này nọ thì xa xôi quá! Nói đơn giản, anh làm sai thì anh phải bị xử đúng pháp luật. Chỉ nội việc này đã là không thể rồi. Người dân mất niềm tin vào chính phủ không phải từ các đại án tham nhũng mà phần nhiều vì những gì rất nhỏ nhặt và đời thường.
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Toan Không phải về tuổi em trai ạ! Mà là về trình độ giáo dục và khả năng nhận thức, em hiểu không?
Toan Mai Quang Hoa nói như bọn admin Việt Tân vậy . Đag nói về công an lại sang lý tưởng . Đánh chủ đề nhanh vkl
Mai Quang Hoa Haizzz, nói với chú mày vào thời điểm này đúng là lấy trứng chọi đá, thôi cứ coi như chú đang tuổi dậy thì nên muốn thể hiện cái tôi cá nhân vậy, nhưng mà anh nói thật nhé, mấy cái bài chú học là có ý tưởng chính trị, mị dân ở trong đó đấy, làm gì có chuyện muốn mình tăng thu nhập mà lại muốn nước khác giảm thu nhập :))
Mai Quang Hoa Toan Thì nó liên quan thì mới thế. Trên đút lót, dưới đút lót, chả liên quan còn gì
Toan Mai Quang Hoa like bác, bác nhắc em mới để ý, câu đấy ngu vãi ra.! sorry dùng từ ko phù hợp
ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa Toan thế thì relpy ở trên
trunghq ThomasNguzen Toan vkl nhà nhà họ hàng đều người lớn . Họ ai nghĩ công an lại như vậy cả
trunghq Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen chẳng biết ai đang tự làm xấu mặt người VN đâu
Mai Quang Hoa trunghq ThomasNguzen Toan Muốn làm công an hả em. Làm công an tốt cố găng chịu khổ nhé, hi vọng có đủ tiền đổ xăng
Mai Quang Hoa Em nên nhìn nhận khách quan hơn, cái gì nó cũng có 2 mặt, mà cái mặt thật trận trụi thường thì lại bị che đậy đi
ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa trunghq Toan Good cop in Vietnam is people who will become Bad cop. You known what i mean
ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa trunghq Toan đấy là bọn công an kém mới đứng đường như thế này nhé .
Toan Mai Quang Hoa ai cũng biết mặt trần trụi của nó nhưng đừng nên quá để ý đến nó . Nó vẫn có nhiều mặt tốt đẹp
Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen trunghq Toan Nhầm nha. Phải chạy mới được ra đó đấy. Kém mới phải ngồi văn phòng.
VetPhan Yeah gorvernment is the key to solve, to explain why we have corrupted cop on street.
dmy ThomasNguzen Mai Quang Hoa trunghq Toan lại thím này nữa người việt còn tỏ vẻ
trunghq Charlie Pryor aconcernedcitizen Who is the good cop. In Vietnam, good cop is the one who will be bad cop. It means, the cop who studying in Cop School. HA HA HA.
trunghq Mai Quang Hoa ThomasNguzen Toan nhầm nha . Giỏi người ta làm bàn giấy . Công an đứng đường chẳng nhận thêm đc đồng nào ( trừ khi phải trưc) mak` lại phải chịu nắng
Mai Quang Hoa Có những mặt tốt đẹp nhưng mà em có thấy nước nào phát triển mà chỉ chăm chăm nhìn vào mặt đẹp của mình chưa
Toan Mai Quang Hoa mẹ toàn nghĩ mặt xấu vậy . Bộ trưởng bắt khâu túi rồi còn gì nữa . Hối lộ là do dân . Dân không hối lộ nó bắt lấy mak` được ak’ . Mak` ở trên tôi nói nhìn chằm chằm vào mặt tốt đâu . Chính bạn đang nhìn chằm chằm vào mặt xấu đấy
Mai Quang Hoa Bye em nhé, có khi 10 năm sau em mới hiểu được những việc này, mà lúc đấy cũng có khi đã thay đổi chế độ hoặc vẫn là đệ tử của Trung Quốc thôi
Toan Mai Quang Hoa đệ của TQ là do dân mik dễ tính dùng hàng của nó nhé . Nước nó nền văn hiến lâu đời và dân đông hơn mik nên cai trị nhé . Đừng lấy tuổi tác ra xem như 1 ưu thế và được quyền cho là mik đúng nhé . Suy nghĩ lại đi
State police they tell you how they make me listen to so much more than it was the police who did not understand the language VN water you need to know why it was so bribery does it go back to their country go xl
what a shame
Mai Quang Hoa trunghq ThomasNguzen He/she is DLV in vietnamese, dư luận viên, oh what a shame on him/her.
The first youtube is cop at ThuDuc “trạm 2”. You will saw them, cop, sometimes you go to “Suối Tiên”
I do not understand why many Vietnamese below are just arguing about such a stupid thing. Thousands of people around the world may read what you have written, and what are they going to think about Vietnamese manners that have been so bad in public areas?
Sorry for my bad English! The traffic police sometimes have a “team”, are some unknown people, dress like a normal people, who will beat anyone don’t agree with police’s ticket. Some murders happened!
/watch?v=yKtwHfIE9nI
I’m Vietnamese, and even I cannot come up with anything decent to justify their action. :/ I mean, sure, many take their job seriously as officers of the laws, but many among the law enforcement in Vietnam are still succumbing to bribery. But on the bright sight: they have stop a lot of illegal weaponry possesions (guns, swords, etc etc…), so I still have to agree to some extent on the randomness of their selection on who will be stopped and who will be let off.
Well, good new to ALL foreigners in Vietnam: if you haven’t indeed violated any trafic law or regulation, and you suspect that these cops are just “politely mugging” you, do the sensible thing like my English teacher did: Ask for a receipt. :v This shows that you understand the laws, and Vietnamese traffic officers will have to conceit. 9they usually avoid foreigners anyway, ‘cuz they don’t speak much English. LOL)
Military officers would usually het the free pass to. (How unfair, at least to commoner like your truly)
Plus, many Vietnamese people have the habit of paying the bribe (because it’s SO MUCH cheaper than paying for the actual ticket. WHY???) These guys are also responsible for the epidemic of bribery in the line of trafic police officers in Vietnam. laws have been made to counter the issue, but it seems like rarely that people would comply to these regulations. :/
Awesome and true, your words have describes this situation better than any Vietnamese, myself included, can. I look forwards to your next entry about Vietnam. (Hopefully it will be something possitive rather than negative :D)
Louis08 It’s how they react online: with zero consideration, respect and ettiquette. :/
Mai Quang Hoa Might want to elaborate on this so we can see your mighty understanding on the issue? Because I think Charlie hasn’t missed one single detail describing the corrupted cops in Vietnam.
Mai Quang Hoa That why this article is objective, and not subjective like you are or what you are saying. He has witness the ongoing for a while, that’s why he can say it in detail.
So I would say this: It’s not completely UNTRUE. He missed here and there, but overall it’s quite accurate about the situation in Vietnam.
BTW, you are extremly naive if the system funtioned in the way you’s described it. There are dirty cops, and there are the enforcers of the Laws. Unfortunately, the former exceed the latter. :/
Louis08 like I said below , vietnamese people are clueless…
so true 🙁
Silverio20 Mai Quang Hoa I too am eager to hear how things are “completely untrue.” This isn’t a news story, or some study of an area. It’s a recounting of living experiences, collectively produced and expressed from two international trips with over 2 months in the country.
My hope is that this person returns to tell us more as to why I’m wrong, and doesn’t reveal herself as being related to a cop. It would make sense if she was related to a cop, but it would remove all credibility from her statement at the same time.
Thanks for the kind words Silverio20
Well, good new to ALL foreigners in Vietnam: if you haven’t indeed
violated any trafic law or regulation, and you suspect that these cops
are just “politely mugging” you, do the sensible thing like my English
teacher did: Ask for a receipt. :v This shows that you understand the
laws, and Vietnamese traffic officers will have to conceit. 9they
usually avoid foreigners anyway, ‘cuz they don’t speak much English.
LOL)
Military officers would usually het the free pass to. (How unfair, at least to commoner like your truly)
Plus,
many Vietnamese people have the habit of paying the bribe (because it’s
SO MUCH cheaper than paying for the actual ticket. WHY???) These guys
are also responsible for the epidemic of bribery in the line of trafic
police officers in Vietnam. laws have been made to counter the issue,
but it seems like rarely that people would comply to these regulations.
:/
Awesome and true, your words have describes this situation
better than any Vietnamese, myself included, can. I look forwards to
your next entry about Vietnam. (Hopefully it will be something possitive
rather than negative :D)
LOL
“They stand on the street like prostitutes, only their customers don’t enjoy their services. “
Charlie. I was living in Hanoi, north of Vietnam. I heard that police in south Vietnam is bad, such as Dong nai, Ho chi minh city. I havent had a chance to confirm this but based on what I observed in Hanoi, read news and chat with my friends, police in South Vietnam is the worst. Take care.
One more thing you will notice about the aggressive, childish comments from some people from Vietnam. In Vietnam, Internet is so popular in the sense that young people, e.g. high school and undergrad students, have nothing else to do but post stupid things on Facebook, comment impolitely wherever they have a chance. Young people they are like I am proud of my country, whatever is bad, it’s just minor, etc. They have no idea what is going on, have no idea how to receive negative feedback to improve. I am not going to say sorry on behalf of them or something like that that some people did. But my recommendation is that please ignore or delete those posts if you don’t want to see them. As a Vietnamese, I found uncomfortable with this kind of immature people before.
SonLe1 Thanks for the kind words. To be honest, I welcome comments from everyone, even if they don’t agree with my look on things. This is especially true since I admit to only having a narrow view of things anyways, and with only 2 months experience with things, and not even knowing the language myself, there’s no way I could ever claim to know more than some of the others here.
That being said though, I can’t understand half the comments on this post anyways, so it won’t be hard to ignore them when they’re in Vietnamese. This isn’t being rude… I just don’t understand the text, and the sheer volume of comments is too much right now to run through a translator over and over again.
Unless something is offensive to somebody, I’ll just leave it up. Objective and fair discussion always has differences. Unless they are flat out mean, I don’t mind them leaving their thoughts on things.
Thanks for stopping by! Have a look around and read some of the other awesome stories I have to share from Vietnam! Most of them are very positive. 🙂
LTDH Thanks for the kind words. I have a very limited experience in this country, so to hear that people believe I’ve captured the reality of things with this small amount of time is a great inspiration to continue sharing stories. I’ll likely visit Vietnam once a year, if not at least every other year, so there’s plenty more for me to learn and experience as time goes on!
Have a look around and <a href=”https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/vietnam”>enjoy some of the other stories I have from Vietnam</a>! Most of them are positive, at least, more positive than this. 🙂
” A stark contrast to a police officer in the United States: there is no protect and serve here.” Even though almost everything else you say about Vietnamese traffic cops are true, this statement makes the whole article a joke. But of course, being white in America you don’t see cops in the same way we people of color do. To show you some examples, this is how cops would do to a college professor (who is female and black) who happened to jaywalk across a campus street in Arizona and dare to argue with them:
http://khon2.com/2014/06/29/arizona-state-university-professor-arrested-claims-self-defense/
And this is how a Vietnamese [international] student, who was unarmed and on cuffs at the time he was beaten to a pulp by San Jose cops:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovpAFMrmp8
Now, being a Vietnamese and a college professor living in the States and always live in fear of American cops, let me ask you two questions:
1) Have you ever seen a foreigner, let alone a white man, being beaten by Vietnamese cop?
2) Have you ever seen a teacher, let alone a female teacher, being thrown on the street and put in cuffs by two big cops, exposing her lower body to the public and scream in vain?
Unless your answer is yes, then my friend, don’t even compare the notorious white fascists in your country to those traffic “rats’ in Vietnam. Because they’re not even in the same league.
LinhGia Chú cũng có mặt trong này à 🙂
Mai Quang Hoa Toan =)) bạn nên suy nghĩ những lời mình nói và suy nghĩ của mình thì đúng hơn, mình đọc mà mình còn buồn cười những gì bạn ghi…!
well, im not surprise…! Most of them just want money and want to make more money from other people..! for example, when I was in the Tan Son Nhat International Airport to go back to the States, I got to pay them 150 USD to let them take care of my luggages, and they even asked me if I have anymore money…! 😐
Mai Quang Hoa
@ Charlie Pryor: Don’t care what Mai Quang Hoa said! He is a sensitizer (dư luận viên) working for The Communist Party. They comment by mission, by asignment, not using reasons! Discussion with kind of people will wast our time!
Charlie Pryor Silverio20 Mai Quang Hoa Don’t care what Mai Quang Hoa said! He is a sensitizer (dư luận viên) working for The Communist Party. They comment by mission, by asignment, not using reasons! Discussion with kind of people will wast our time!
Mai Quang Hoa Thằng bị tẩy não mày im đi cho người VN đỡ nhục! Hey “brain washed boy”! Shut your f* up!
DinhXuanNguyen Tin Nguyen Quang Kim Anh Nguyen coc
DuLuanVien He is a 15 year old boy, and you are saying h is a sensitizer ?
DiehardMan I’ve been extremely open about how poor police officers treat individuals in America, and the corruption that goes on in suburban neighborhoods. I don’t expect you to know it, because you don’t know me. I’ve been extremely vocal about the abuse that happens daily in my country as well as around the world.
Don’t be so judgmental or angry to strangers you don’t know man. It doesn’t take being a minority to know what happens to minority citizens, just as it doesn’t take being white to understand preferential treatment. Racism isn’t dead. Anyone who says differently is a fool. Where Vietnam differs from America, is in the principals of the men and women in uniform as a whole; as a collective. There are some terrible officers in the world, but there are also amazing people that only want to make the world a better place. Do you see more of the negative in people? Maybe – but you’re also looking for it.
No longer can a black man simply state confidently that they know more about the tyrannical actions and racism in the world than a white man does. This is the age of information dude. You don’t have to be effected by things first hand to have a good grasp on anything anymore.
But I’ve been around the world. Been to dozens of places, and experienced dozens of cultures. I know the differences in the culture behind a group of people when I see it, and while there are likely officers near you who are total dicks; for ever one of them, there are 5 great people who do the right thing for everyone, and not just those with the same color skin.
You can’t play the race card everywhere anymore. Racism works both ways today, and works a lot less than it used to. Today, the “racists” of the world are prosecuted publicly too.
Also… in case you missed it (you probably did it would seem), I linked to a story regarding police getting away with things they shouldn’t already. I have numerous posts on this blog related to the topic as well. The story I linked to is even me on a video. Check it out.
I’m not the villain you’re looking for. I’m simply a guy with experiences telling those experiences on a blog.
Mai Quang Hoa : Hoàn toàn sai sự thật => Có dẫn chứng cụ thể kia bạn ơi! Chỉ là nói không phải tất cả đều như thế thôi, chứ mình thấy đúng mà 😀
DiehardMan I’d also like to add to that, by saying that the overwhelming majority of the comments on this blog agree with how things are expressed here. This tells me I don’t have it wrong. I almost certainly don’t have the whole story (and have admitted that my experience in Viet Nam is limited to 2 months worth of time over two visits), but from what I have experienced (this isn’t research online… this is living experience, first hand knowledge), this is how I see it. Welcome to Charlie’s Place.
As a Vietnamese, I’m sorry for what the Vietnamese traffic police did
The truth is everyone in Vietnam hates traffic cops ( exept themselves lol ) and calls them “The yellow Dogs” ( call someone “dog” in Vietnam is an insult ), so what they tell you about how bad the traffic cops are maybe not completely true
I was pulled over by a cops once, it was totally my fault for not wearing a helmet but when I give them bribe, they refused to take them and tell me to sign the ticket
Not all of them are bad ( just almost ), there are still goods traffic cops, just people don’t appreciate what they do because they hate them
If you ever have a chance, you might have a difference impression on Da Nang’s police. 🙂
thetrangdam Oh! I’ve been to Da Nang! Twice actually. It’s nice there, but I have no experience with the police, so I can’t say…. maybe having no experience with them is a way of saying it’s a better experience (since they didn’t bug us).
Charlie Pryor Great to hear that you’ve been to DN. Well it’s better to experience yourself, individuals have their own impression on these police. I personally find the middle and the southern people likely to be more kind and hospitable than folks here in the north, with my girlfriend, we planned to get married & move to Da Nang. 🙂
Wish you more fun & positive experience on travelling.
Corruption is at its best in Hai Phong which is like an hour of drive time from Hanoi, to be honest what I heard from relatives the polices are even forced to do so, as in there’s a demand from higher up that you must fine at least n amount of money in a certain street within a one month period. This is not a confirmed fact but as far as I know the problem occur in certain cities are worse than others but that has nothing to do with where that city is, but rather the origins of the city’s citizen.
Concerning the younger generation they’re inspired by ideals that they were taught in school and family, which is a blind love toward their country rather than to see it’s flaws and try to improve it.
The Vietnamese are too well known for bad manners. As a Vietnamese myself I would rather to expose all those flaws and force an improvement than try to keep a “clean image” that would be found out anyway. Don’t try to sell a rotten apple by trying to make it looks fresh, sell the fresh apple itself. A bad impression can be hard to change but a bad reputation is even harder.
thetrangdamThanks for the kind words! This is clearly something that has mixes of opinions… which is why the article is structured as an opinion peace, titled “Why I Hate…” instead of “Why Everyone hates…”
In a government scale I’ve seen article about opposition to government agents giving their lands to corporations which likely have bribed them. A few who oppose faced charge for resistance to government officers (sorry I don’t know the right term for this). The law for this is very strict, mainly because it have something to do with power and corruption. Those with power would force even corporations to their will. From stories I heard those with connection would even use their influence to win tenders with unbelievable high price while providing crappy service in return.
Charlie Pryor thetrangdam beacause there’re no traffic police ( except some special occasion)
abt your story, i think you read too far, judging everyone (police). your friend forgot to signal turning-light so that why he was pulled over. That is his mistake
thetrangdam Charlie Pryor racism ==
Cập nhập thông tin đi. Cs ko xấu nhưng csgt được coi như “hung thần” trên phố, bắt người vs những lí do sặc mùi đòi tiền. Chạy vô công an tốt cả tỉ để nhận lương cơ bản bê bết mà sao vẫn đầy người chạy
Awesome to have so many comments from such a diverse group of people! Thank you so much for visiting! Please feel comfortable engaging with people here in the comments. As long as you’re not hateful towards others, your thoughts are always welcomed.
For those of you reading in Vietnamese, I’m really sorry about how it looks for you. Google Translate is terrible, and I don’t know Vietnamese well enough to actually write an article like this in the language.
Hopefully the story isn’t completely destroyed when you’re looking at a translated version. I didn’t write in any language other than English.
From what I read da nang may be the only positive place left in Vietnam, and they’re trying their best to do so. That would also explain policies against immigration, to limit the flies attracted to the cake
BaoHoangGia Charlie Pryor thetrangdam Except the part where we didn’t make any turns or lane changes. We went straight, under the speed limit, in our lane. Nothing was wrong in any way – especially when you consider how crazy HCMC traffic is anyways.
I gave snide examples above, not an actual event, when I mentioned lane changes
Concerning any future opposition in your article from Vietnamese just think of them as old-school racist and sexist Christians. They don’t work well with logic but will argue till the end, and are seen as idiots by others beside their kind.
aconcernedcitizen Flies attracted to the cake… hahaha!
aconcernedcitizen We have the same type of people here in America too! We call them Republicans.
I’m Vietnamese and this is 1 of reasons i dun like my country(not all the country)
TheEninamm Your country is beautiful, and so are your people…. mostly. 😛
BaoHoangGia Charlie Pryor Police here (Hanoi) keep pulling random drivers over and you know the rest of the story.
Yes! RANDOM drivers, to emphasize. Car drivers are usually the targets since they’ll have to pay more […] & they are unable to kite like motorbike drivers. True that.
That’s what happening among those good & bad police out there on the road.
Glad you enjoyed it! There’s a lot of stuff in my Vietnam travel section you may like to see! 🙂
https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/vietnam
I like that part too. I wrote it in a note pad while we were in the car (right after the video ends). I looked across the road and seen more police just standing around at a corner, and it instantly reminded me of that!
If you liked that, there’s a lot of stuff in my Vietnam travel section you may like to see! https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/vietnam
You’ve only got issue with traffic police. If you do business in Vietnam, I’m sure you’ll have much more experiences in bribery. Many government departments will come to you: taxation, market control, fire safety, environmental… If they come and not being bribed, sure you’ll get into trouble.
Dear Charlie,
I’m Vietnamese. Thank for your article. I like it ^.^
Many people in Vietnam’s traffic police not completely identical as those in your video. The people in your video is the stupid people. They dont ashamed of them bad habits, but I know. And I hope you dont like my country.
Thank U and good lucky day.
(I speak English not well. But, I hope you could understand)
Heen It saddens me to hear that. 🙁 It’s probably not likely to change soon either…
thuyduonglyxnktl I sort of understood… although I think you mean “I hope you like my country” without the “Don’t” in there.. 🙂
Thank you so much for reading and watching! Have a great day!
I am Vietnamese
the police you saw that’s just one of them ! In my country , the Police in VietNam do the job very good
My English is not good ^^
Cuongkoihb It’s not just one. I’m showing at least a dozen in my video, and that doesn’t count the near 100 I’ve seen in my travels there. I know you mean well, and want to defend your people. I understand that need – but you cannot defend this. simply put, corruption is evident and obvious in your law enforcement system.
Charlie Pryor we will do it ^^ thank for your article ^^
Thanks you, I check it now! 🙂
When in the Rome, do as the Romans do ( translate: Nhập gia tuỳ tục ) 🙂 hope U are feeling better when U come back to VietNam again :p
LeQuangDung In every great group, there’s always a few bad people. In every rotten group, there’s always a few good people.
Vietnam traffic police are a rotten group.
Thanks for the good article. I believe only foreign journalists can have a good POV and willing to speak out straight to the bad things in our country (in which the local journalists can’t or dare not to). Like what you said in the article as well as in the video, me myself have nothing to explain and have to admit that those things like that happens in every single second, in every single city in Vietnam. This is not what we really want our international friends to experience and totally feel ashame. However, those people (who are called “police”) are not the representatives of the whole Vietnamese police, who are contributing for our country. The stories about traffic polices asking for bribe from people are very common on the daily newspaper. The people in charge know about this but they pretend they don’t.
Well, anyways, hopefully you’ve had a good time in Vietnam. Please enjoy the landscape, the friendly local people in each city you’ve visited.
Regards,
Cuongkoihb You are such a big liar. “the police you saw that’s just one of them” :P. Please, Are you there child and try to said good about your daddy??.
Come on, Everyone in this country curse the suck police and even the communist gov.
Mai Quang Hoa vâng thì tiếng Việt :v xin lỗi nhé giá cứng của cảnh sát giao thông là 250tr để vào ngành,dao động tùy chức vụ. và “luật” VN trao một cái quyền ngớ ngẩn là chó vàng có thể bắt phương tiện giao thông dừng bất kì khi nào. vì vậy chúng nó tận dụng triệt để nhằm kiếm chác tiền đưa vào túi riêng. ở khu bạn sống là cái góc nào thì mình không biết nhưng mình dám chắc 99% chó vàng ở HN và HCM đã từng ăn tiền mà không lập biên bản lỗi vi phạm để đưa vào ngân sách và đút túi riêng. đó là cái khốn nạn đấy. bênh gì nữa khi chúng nó moi móc mọi lỗi nhỏ để kiếm tiền cho bản thân chứ chẳng có mấy xu đúng nghĩa tiền phạt. đây có thể định nghĩa chính xác là ĂN CƯỚP đấy. chó vàng chưa thấy ai tử tế, có thể có mà chắc chưa sinh ra
As a Vietnamese living abroad and i had many return trips back to Vietnam to visit, I can confirm that ur article and the videos about CSGT in Vietnam are completely truth but more they are crooks, impolite …all those sort of things are not just happening now and then many years before
Oh yeah, America Police just shoot people without a problem. You with your tiny sight of Vietnam should not write something like this article, it’s just a dark side of the country similar to any others. You should feel shame for what you write here.
True story !!! I totally agree with your reviews and opinions ’bout Tan-suit clowns here. They are not ppl’s servant anymore, they transformed into legal thief of the government nowaday
HoaiBac There’s no shame in writing truthful expressions of experiences, and there never will be. – And there is absolutely problems with police shooting people, and those situations get handled every day. They don’t always get handled correctly, and in many cases, American police are definitely punished less than they should be.
I’ve linked another article in which expresses that very point. You should watch that as well.
I’m sorry your view of America is so poor, and a bit misguided. I’m definitely not ashamed of expressing my experiences, and will never be. Have a great day, and thanks for reading!
You should try more and more. And you can finish you essay as: “Morning, traffic police took penalty money and told me to drive on this lane. Evening, other police told me to drive on other lane on the same road. Of course, penalty twice in a whole long day.”
SgReturn Thank you for reading, and sharing your experience as well!
minhquan271090 That’s a good point about foreign journalists. Given that I live in an entirely other country on the other side of the world, I face very little consequences in comparison to those who report within Vietnam. I suppose I’m less experienced, and less knowledgable than locals, but more expressive and confident about sharing.
Makes for a good story. 🙂 Thanks for stopping in! I hope you enjoy what I have to share.
HoaiBac You know that what he wrote is true. He just have a “tiny sight of Vietnam” and he wrote about it. What’s wrong? Why it’s a shame? ” it’s just a dark side of the country similar to any others” So what? Foreigners mustn’t write about it because it’s a dark side that other countries have? Silly logic.
Tiếng Anh thì giỏi mà suy nghĩ thì có vấn đề :v Người ta viết báo phản ánh tệ nạn nước mình thì kêu người ta thiển cận, kêu người ta ko biết xấu hổ :v Xong rồi lại còn lý do lý trấu “Ứ ừ chỉ là 1 mảng tối thôi mà, bọn nước khác cũng y như thế mà, ai cho anh viết về nước em, anh thì biết gì về nước em, ứ chịu đâu” :v
Đấy là còn chưa nói đến cái câu đầu tiên :v Bác này chắc phải có “giant sight of the US” thì mới dám cho 1 câu như thế nhỉ?
Thần kinh!!!
Their low wages have a lot to do with it as well. With the government being unable to properly fund law enforcement, they resort to alternative income sources – harming citizen rights and overall image in the process. Part of me understands why they are the way they are, and part of me doesn’t care.
American cops are likely to arrest you if you offer a bribe than let you go. They’ll add “bribing a police officer” to your list of offenses and send you to jail. – Because police get paid much better wages here. Many would argue it’s still not high enough, but it is.
i enjoy your writing and at the same time feeling ashamed. we all know this is true but none of us have courage to talk about it like you did. i will share your writing on my fb.
HoaiBac i think you are the one should be shame for what you wrote here ^^
I’ve lived in Saigon for a couple of years now and have been pulled over on my motorbike 4 times.
I only paid a fine/ bribe one of those times.
The rest of the time I resort to theatrics.
I’ve found feigning explosive diarrhea (to the point where you point to your stomach and ass, and proceed to the curb where you begin to pull your pants down as if you’re going to drop Hershey Squirts on the streets) is a very effective tactic for having them get rid of you. Works for me.
Charlie, what I want to say is that every country has their own problem. Police in Vietnam and in US have their problem. At least, in Vietnam, police does not shoot kid with toy gun. If you can only see the dark side, it’s shame because you don’t know the other side of Vietnam police.
I won’t argue with you about US police, just to give an example of their dark side, and I won’t give a conclusion of US police. Conclusion base on a very detail example won’t be enough.
I hope you will write another article about how good is Vietnam police when you stay long enough here in my country.
Good or bad, it’s only a matter of prejudice.
minhquan271090 Not totally true. Vietnamese journalists do complain a lot about the bribery matter of traffic cops.
We do talk about it on newspapers, on VTV news (with video clip), in the comedy show on the last day of each year (Gặp nhau cuối năm you know :v)
The problem has now become a recognized fact that Gov. doesn’t need to hide anymore, because they can’t. Sadly, they also doesn’t need, or can’t solve it.
Hello, I’m from Hanoi, and currently I’m living in the US, and I’m saddened and sorry to hear that you have to experience such things when visiting Vietnam. I have to admit, these things happen a lot across of Vietnam, and the traffic police force are largely corrupted. But of course, as a Vietnamese, and a citizen that have lived and traveled in Vietnam for a long time, I also want to defend my fellow people a bit. I can assure you that this is even though a common thing, not a representative behaviour of the police force, since I have plenty of family members and friends who work in the force, both on the traffic department and others. They are however large in number, is still minority, and the leaders of the force and even many of the policemen are fighting against day by day, and it’s not an easy fight. I myself have been stopped and fined several times during my time traveling by motorbike in Vietnam, and my father as well by car. And fortunately for me, most of those times, I met only the good cops, who won’t take bribe, are polite, and respect us. Most of those times, if they explain to me my violation, and if I know and understand those violations according to my knowledge of the law, I would accept the fine, sign the ticket, and have the fine processed right on the spot, and they give me a receipt, and I’ll be free to go without having my license confiscated. (yes, they have that nowadays, reducing the time that we have to travel back and forth to the police stations anymore, depends on the type of violation). And everything was very comfortable and without stress. Sometimes, when I explain my situation in a very apologetic manner (for eg if I’m in a hurry, I don’t carry money, I don’t know that law, I don’t know the law among that part), they even reduce my fine down, change the title of my violation into something lighter, and not as serious, and I’ll be free to go with little to none the fine price. But of course, I’ve met plenty of those corrupted cops, too, and those were very annoying and frustrating. In those situations, if it was day time, and if I was stopped and accused of a violation that I know for sure I didn’t commit, I would make an argument right on the spot with reasons and a refrained, polite attitude, until they run out of logic to answer me, they would have to let me go with only a vocal warning, same thing happened like that a few times with my dad when he was driving his car too. Make a convincing argument, and nobody can force you to do anything out of order. But if it was night time and the road is empty or dark enough, you don’t want to mess with them. I usually carry very little money on me when I go out during the night, even if I was having a date with my girlfriend, and try my best to avoid dark alleys or roads that I’m not familiar with (because a lot of them will take advantage of new laws or new regulations among those parts to stop you unreasonably). Very rarely that I have to resort to bribing them to let me go, because if you don’t have a lot of money, and you show a good attitude, they would let you go without harassing further. Yes, this sounds terrible, and they are the corrupted group of the force, the “thieves” as you said, but like I said, this is not a representative behaviour that a lot of good policemen don’t want people, especially foreigners to have to face.
So basically, if you follow the law correctly, pay a little attention when you drive/ride either on a highway in the countryside, or even in the city streets, and consider the situation thoroughly before raising your voice to either defend yourself or to ask them for sympathy, then you’ll be just fine. And despite anyone saying a lot of things in your comments, I can assure you that this behaviour among the police force is being watched and reported on official press on a daily basis, and many people have raised their voices both among the normal people, the papers, and even among the force themselves to expose this dark side of the law enforcers. The police department in Hanoi actually created a special force, combining different departments during the police to fight against both serious traffic violations and corruption among themselves too.
Also, if you consider the citizen’s side of the story, you’ll see this is a 2-way story when most of our citizens just ignore the traffic rules most of the time, even if they know it very clearly. I’m sure you’ve seen people with outrageous traffic attitude like they have no mirrors, no helmet, travel at crazy speed, crossing the lines, passing the lights, crossing lanes, go on the sidewalk, carry crazy amount of merchandises on a small bike, or carry more than 3 people on a bike, … . These things are so common that if you’re not violating one of those rules, you’ll be considered a “looney”. For example: There were a lot of times when I was waiting for the red light, a lot of people behind me would ring their horns like it’s the end of the world, and even asked me and urged me to step aside so that they could pass the red light, and they would even insult me if I didn’t do as they asked, I was even threatened to be cut if I didn’t leave room for them. This is also common to the drivers on highways, both with cars, trucks, vans, 18-wheelers,… where they would go at a dangerous speed. And if they were stopped by the police, most of them wouldn’t hesitate to offer the bribe the police so that they could get away as fast as possible.
So you see, every problem has its 2 sides, it’s not the fault of any only one party, and without one thing, the other wouldn’t exist, or as we have a saying in Vietnamese “How would there be smoke without the fire” (Không có lửa làm sao có khói). The corrupted cops are endorsed by the ill behaved citizens, and they grow to the point of difficult to get rid of, even if they’re exposed on TV, on papers, or on the internet all the time.
Of course, I’m a Vietnamese, lived in Vietnam most of my life, and now experiencing the life in a developed country like the U.S., I understand how different things are, and this is not me trying to make excuses for a dark side of my country. I wouldn’t deny that it exist, I wouldn’t find excuses for it, but I think it’s important to look at things in every point of views and understanding things as in depth as possible to really judge it objectively and fairly. I assure you, the educated population like us will never stop fighting against things like this, but it will take a lot of effort and time too. We’re all only humans, and we’re all have emotions, when things like this happen, we’re all angry and annoyed, so it’s totally anyone’s right to express their feeling, I’m just hoping I can give you a bit of insight on the other side of the coin, so you’ll have a better view on things in my country.
I hope you’ll find more opportunities to visit Vietnam again soon, and won’t be harassed by the “worms who ruin the soup” anymore. (con sâu làm rầu nồi canh)
HoaiBac Well, I think I have to apologize for my attitude towards you in my above comment.
However, don’t expect anybody to give you a praise together with a criticism. You may have good points, but don’t expect people to talk about them. They can choose what they want to say. This article is titled “Why I Hate Traffic Police in VN”. You cannot demand him to talk about good points of some VN policemen and bad points of some US policemen in such an article.
Your conversation is like this to me:
– Charlie: Vietnamese pork taste like sh!t
– You: I admit that Vietnamese pork is bad, but Vietnamese beef is very good! And US pork is terrible too! It’s a shame of you to complain about Vietnamese pork.
Ha_An: no problem mate, I’m old enough to be calm in this conversation. Just hope that people don’t feel offensive reading my comment.
Bạn đã quá quen tư duy áp đặt và bảo thủ của chế độ cầm quyền này, coi chừng thế giới họ cười vào mặt bạn. Bạn không có tí quyền nào để áp quan điểm của bạn cho họ
Ha_An Yeah that was my bad for meaning “local journalists” in general. Fortunately, I ‘ve included the things about having those similar news on the daily newspaper, lol.
Actually, what I mean when stating that point was to emphasize that Vietnamese journalism has been controlling and there is no such thing as freedom of speech here. They raise the problem once, or twice and in the least critic way as possible (except the freelance journalists on the internet :v). And that, the Vietnames journalists have neither power nor authority to point out straight to the Government as like many international journalists are possible to do so … 🙁
And for sure, I totally agree with your point that the Gov. should need to do something and that’s what all we Vietnamese people had been expecting in more than a decade… But still, there was no such a big change and the result is our Charlie friend has to put into his blog entry.
Peace, and nice reading a lot of neutral opinions like yours in here.
People like you is the reason why the country never gets any better. The way you look at other nations problem as an excuse represent many Vietnamese who refuse to improve themselves because of “that guy is the same as me/even worse than me” take the criticism, and try to fix your problem is how you improve, not just trying to find others flaws to imply that they possess no rights to judge you
Charlie Pryor To me, the things which make an organization, or wider, a country are both good and bad sides of an issue. Each person experience differently from the others and thus giving multiple POVs. I believe what you are writing in this article, beside being annoyed and feeling ridiculous of what you’ve observed (same thing happen to me after watching those clips), is to expect some changes. I used to live in the States for 5 years and really love the way police there behave (i’m not talking about the “good in the rotten, lol”). So you are right when expecting to be treated like you have been in your home country like I do when I was there.
By the way, yes, I do enjoy what you have to share.
aconcernedcitizen you are really humble.Don’t be serious. If you know half of Vietnamese population then I can accept your statement. No point to have conversation with you because of your prejudice. You don’t even know me but you try to teach my country how to fix our problem. Go to school and learn how to respect the others’ view.
FYI, we Vietnamese all know it and seek the way to deal with it, the result will not come overnight but we are on it. You as the outsider just don’t blindly criticize us because you have no right. More than that, fix your problem before putting your nose in other tea.
We all know, sigh you don’t even know, that attitude proves it. And outsider? Don’t make me laugh I’m Vietnamese
HoaiBac aconcernedcitizen “WE”? Pardon me? Don’t think that other Vietnamese people share your view. You are a coward or you are paid to say such things right here.
Charlie Pryor For your concerns, your article now has been posted in some online newspapers and shared in some forums of young people. It attracts a great number of people, including the ones who are bad at English. In my opinion, most of them come here to protect their Gov. with or without being paid. I don’t like them.
HoaiBac I’m Vietnamese and yet another vietnamese who does not share your idea, the same with many other vietnamese, at least the ones who comment in this article. What is bad, take it as shortcoming and improve, what is good just keep silent and keep doing well. Do not talk about how good you are, or tell the other to find out your advantages because they don’t care. It’s a simple fact whether in this conversation or beyond it.
Corrupted police may be seen as a normal thing happens around and around in vietnamese road. We have learned how to live with them, how to avoid losing money on the road for such problems, but do not think people should take it as a right think along with getting used to it. This is a disease. People keep paying money for just avoiding the real fine on paper, but don’t know that they are doing illegal things everyday and everyday, which makes illegality become legality. For a long time the police got more and more corrupted, there were actual reports about the police pulling people for nothing, which is happening more and more frequently day by day. Can you easily predict what will those police become? How many more similar type of police will happen?
GeremiDemitri Mai Quang Hoa Lớp 9 không hiểu gì đâu.
VetPhan Not all people are clueless. We do respect the traffic law. The problem is that the press only focuses on the negative side. And, maybe, to foreigners like you, normal things in Vietnam may sound weird and illegal, hehe.
Louis08 Well, I guess the good and sensible Vietnamese people like me and my friends are hard-working and barely have time to read and reply on articles like this. I myself would rather work the shiet out of me to contribute a tiny bit to make the country better than be a “keyboard hero”. Other than that, yeah the country needs improvement, the education system needs to be more realistic rather than idealistic. The people are trying hard to make it happens though it will take time. We’re not all rotten.
HoaiBac you may see the good side but we don’t, does it matter?
Nguyen Hoai Dang Khoa except the word “communist gov” with a sarcastic tone, you are right, everyone in this country all curse those traffic enforcers.
Beyond them, yet the government is doing well enough to protect your ass
You lucky, mate :)) if you get caught in jail in Vietnam, you may say good-bye your tomorrow, and your body will be found without no reasons :)) No one can protect you in that case :))
True, and while they are not paid enough in vietnam, they even make a larger profit from bribing though if they are paid enough. 😉
LOL your writing just woke me up from my nap =))
To be perfectly honest, I prefer to view your post as an
outlet to vent your anger. It’s completely one-sided, but you’re not wrong
because the facts are true to some extent. I won’t analyze everything that you
wrote here since lots of people commented on it already.
The system is indeed corrupted in Vietnam. But isn’t it the
same for almost every other country? (I’m not just talking about traffic.) In
this place, it’s the dark side laid out in broad daylight. If you can’t change
something, you have to accept it. Accept it and try to find a way out. That’s
what we’re doing here in Vietnam. It doesn’t mean you use tricks to get around
the laws. I try my best to be careful while driving around. That’s it. If you
do things right they can’t frame you.
I hope others do the same, even if they’re not Vietnamese.
But it seems to be difficult to change your mind about what
you’ve been through during your trip… =.=
aconcernedcitizen you are not Vietnamese, don’t make me laugh, your attitude say it all. You are just an outsider even in your own country. I’m tired of this kind of person.
This may be offensive but you deserve that.
HoaiBac
Tôi thực sự không muốn xài tiếng việt trong blog tiếng anh, nhưng nếu nó “khai sáng” cho bạn được điều gì tôi cũng mừng. Hi vọng điều này chứng minh điều mà bạn “nghĩ là mình đúng”
Thứ hai, hãy xem lại những comment trước, có những ai đồng ý với bạn, ai đồng ý với tôi. Đừng cứ cho mình đúng rồi cãi càn cãi cối xúc phạm người ta.
aconcernedcitizen Đừng nóng. Chuyện này ở ngoài đề tài của cậu Charlie rồi. Ở trên tớ đã bảo rồi mà. Chả có gì mà phải gay gắt, chỉ là tớ không thích cách cậu Charlie mô tả về Việt Nam ta thôi. Hơi quá đáng dù đúng, mà cậu thì lại ủng hộ cậu ta. Vậy thôi nhé.
What happen here will stay here. Don’t bring it to the real life.
Thanks for the article. But they can’t understand what the author said because they can’t read English. Need to be translated in to Vietnamese Language. It’s the good idea/
That’s the reason they are called yellow dogs in Vietnam…
TobiasKillar Damn…how fun you are.
Come on guys, there’s nothing wrong if we Vietnamese agree
with this writing. People agree because they feel related. Maybe they have
experienced this situation themselves or they have seen it happen to their
friends, relatives and many other people. The fact that we agree to this undeniable
truth doesn’t mean we do not love our country. We definitely do. That’s why we
are proud of good things about Vietnam. That’s why we’re sad when many
Vietnamese people are still living under
the poverty line. That’s why we feel ashamed and outraged when this kind of
rubbish exists in our country.
Charlie didn’t criticize our country nor say anything offensive about Vietnamese people. He only told us a true
story. No matter how hard we hate this or try to deny this, we must agree that
it is completely true. So instead of saying hey, we also have other good
things, pls look at this blah blah blah why don’t we try to turn those bad things
into good things. How ridiculous when you still talk about such thing everyday but when a foreigner starts to do the same you call him outsider and just want him to shut up. Shame on you!
HoaiBac aconcernedcitizen Tôi có thể hiểu vì sao bạn không thích :)) Bởi vì người ta không có áp lực hay gánh nặng gì khi viết bài, không có gì phải sợ, không có gì phải e dè. Họ chửi thẳng vào mặt CSGT, họ lôi hết những cái u cái nhọt của chúng ta ra cho cả TG nhìn vào, họ tát 1 cú rõ đau vào mặt người VN. Tôi thì tôi thích cách viết này. Khá cay, khác hẳn mấy dòng chửi bậy của anh hùng bàn phím nhan nhản trên mạng. Còn bài viết có quá đáng hay không thì tùy người đọc thôi 🙂
Dân VN chửi CSGT cũng không ít, nhiều là đằng khác, bậy nữa. Nhưng tôi mới chỉ gặp mấy câu chửi ấy trong mấy bài trò chuyện lai rai hoặc chat chit linh tinh trên mạng thôi.
Charlie Pryor HoaiBac According to MY understanding (mine only), the American polices have the right to shoot a suspect if he or she refuses to comply. For example, they tell you to “step out of the car, hands behind your head”, you don’t comply and attempt to resist – alas, in Vietnamese style (talk back, bribery,…), per se – they CAN shoot you, because it’s obstruct of justice. And they don’t do this to peoplewho comply the law.
Personally, I don’t see how this is similar to the corrupt cops in Vietnam. American police shoot people FOR A REASON, Vietnamese trafic cops wave people in for zero reason what so ever.
See the diffirent? 😀
HoaiBac I’m Vietnamese too, and you are adorably naive. I’ve read through your whole arguement and I can’t seem to find one agreeable point at all. LOL
How is that just because we are Vietnamese means we have to blindly disagree with everything negative about our country?
And foreigners who have lived in Vietanam before are the people who is being subjective, aka they can fairly just something without being biastically (is that even a word? ^_^) propagated.
As a Vietnamese, I ask you to try to account for both the good and the bad of our nation? Does the good surpass the bad, or is it the other way around that is more appropriated to describe the current situation? People have treated bribery as a banal, mundane thing in Vietnam. Look around you, what is the first thing people ask when you told them that you’ve been waved in by the trafic police? The common phrase is: “Did you pay the bribe?” (Or something that has been rephrased from this). Yes it’s not “Did you pay the fine?”, but the bribery sum is what they would ask.
We are dealing with it, but hey, whatever that is we are doing, obviously it isn’t working, or else this would have been a completely diffirent article. :v
LTDH Dude, isn’t this my cmt, copied and pasted, with one sentence added? :/
Dear Charlie!
Thank you, I really appreciate your article! Almost everyone in Vietnam has problems with the police!! I myself have had some, too. It’s a VERY UGLY TRUTH my country has to deal with nowadays. Hopefully, this will be solved asap!
Once again, thank you! Have a good day!!
LennyLibraScale Vietnamese accept this too easily. That’s why we can’t have a better system. Sure bribery happens in most every countries but it’s not like this. In other countries, the police don’t go around asking for bribes publicly like this. We do have some serious problems. Of course it is difficult to change the situation but we need to think more about it rather than accepting it. Accepting is dangerous because it make us seem like we’re giving up (on improving things in our country) Please don’t tell you kids to accept it just yet 🙂
same in HaNoi!!! lols
i’m a 13 years-old Vietnamese kid and i approve this 🙂
Ha_An HoaiBac aconcernedcitizen tôi thì ko hiểu vì sao bạn thích ? mình dù khá hạn chế về mặt tiếng anh khi đọc cũng ko khỏi khó chịu về cách miệt thị của thằng Charlie này. Đúng, nó thích chửi ai nó chửi, thậm chỉ nó chửi cả cái chính phủ Việt Nam cũng kệ nó, nhưng sự đồng tình của những người đc sinh ra tại mảnh đất Việt – nói thẳng ra là những người như bạn làm tôi thấy xấu hổ hơn hết. Mọi người trên thế giới họ sẽ ko quan tam 1 thằng tây viết gì về 1 đất nước mà nó ko phải là công dân cả, nhưng ho sẽ quan tâm đến những người là công dân nước đó và nói về nó. Về vấn đề đó thì phải cảm ơn nhièu những người như bạn đã góp phần cho họ thấy những mặt xấu nhất của đất nước của những cá thể chỉ chiểm phần ngàn phần triệu dân số VN. Bạn là người Việt Nam, bạn ko yêu VN, ok ko vấn đề gì, nhưng đã vậy thì khi cmt hãy nói thẳng là tôi ko yêu VN và đưa ra sự đồng tình, còn ko thì đừng có mở miệng tôi là người VN, tôi yêu VN rồi đồng tình với ý kiến trên.
Về mặt pháp lý, xin thưa là chỉ những ai ko hiểu rõ về luật mới bị chặn xe mà ko có lý do rồi kiểm tra giấy tờ nhé. Bạn ko làm sai họ sẽ ko bao h dám dừng xe bạn, hoặc có thì bạn nên chuẩn bị đầy đủ kiến thức để đối phó ( nếu bạn thật sự ko làm gì sai ). Riêng về việc nhận hối lộ, mình hỏi thật chứ có ai đã từng mong CSGT nhận 1,2 trăm để cá nhân khỏi mất thời gian lên kho bạc chực chờ đi đóng tiền, rồi giam xe rồi bấm lỗ v.v…… Xin thưa nếu như nếu bạn ko mong điều đó thì bạn cũng sẽ chả bao h phạm luật vì nó cho thấy bạn là 1 người vô cùng chính trực và bạn chấp nhận mọi hình phạt nếu bạn có sai. Đúng cảnh sát sai, nhưng người dân cũng ko đúng và đó là tiền đề cho hối lộ.
Lại nói về bài viết của thằng Charlie, nó viết theo hướng cho người đọc hình dung là Cảnh sát thì ăn hối lộ và người dân phải chấp nhận chuyện đó vì CSGT đc chính phủ bảo hộ ???? Có thể các bạn giỏi tiếng anh đọc rất chuẩn, nhưng hình như ko ai nắm đc thằng Charlie này nó đang đưa người đọc vào một nhận thức vô cùng sai lấm về VN. Trong khi bạn Hà An, 1 người VN chỉ biết cmt mình thích cách viết của anh ấy câu từ các kiểu, còn bạn aconcernedcitizen thì giống như luật sư bảo hộ của Charlie, mình sẽ ko chỉ trích các bạn là người nông cạn, cũng ko nói các bạn có tâm nhìn kém hay gì đó nhưng bạn Hoài Bắc, nhưng là 1 người VN mình thất vọng về 2 bạn và có đôi chút tự hào về Hoài Bắc.
I’m a Vietnamese and i admit it, they pull ppl out for no reason and you may not know, they even hit ppl to bleed if you was going on a high price car then be prepared …
There’s one time i was catch by them for nothing and you know what they said to me ? They said i was breaking laws and ask for money, i said back and they told me if i don’t shut up it’ll be doubled so here’s what i want to say, Be careful with those “Pigeons”
phutri2005 what he said is true not funny dude
Vietnamese and I’m so embarrassing bout this. Sad but it’s true. Get used to it or u have to drive in motobike, even when u in a low-cost car, still have to repair to this situation. Sr if my English is not good 🙂
Moonversion Bạn đang áp đặt suy nghĩ của mình lên người khác: “Ai thừa nhận thực trạng nhận hối lộ của CSGT VN ở bài viết này là người không yêu nước. Còn nếu thực sự yêu nước thì không nên đồng ý với tác giả bài viết.” Đó là suy nghĩ của bạn, phải không?
“những người như bạn đã góp phần cho họ thấy những mặt xấu nhất của đất nước của những cá thể chỉ chiểm phần ngàn phần triệu dân số VN”
Tôi chỉ biết là tôi thừa nhận sự thật. Tôi không muốn cả thế giới biết rằng ở VN CSGT hầu hết là bọn ăn tiền nhận hối lộ. Tôi không muốn có bất cứ người nước ngoài nào chứng kiến tình trạng này. Tôi cũng không muốn có ai viết về nó cho cả thế giới biết. Tôi không muốn, nhưng có người đã chứng kiến, và đã viết. Khi người ta đã viết thì tôi thừa nhận. Nếu không có những người VN vào đây thừa nhận thì cả thế giới họ vẫn biết, và họ ko biết người VN nghĩ gì về vấn đề này. Nếu có người VN vào đây phản đối và bao che, cả thế giới họ vẫn biết thôi (người ta có mắt để quan sát), và họ biết bọn VN toàn biện hộ, bao che và giấu diếm. Nhưng nếu có người VN vào đây thừa nhận, TG sẽ biết rằng VN cũng đang khó chịu, đang nhức nhối và đang tìm cách giải quyết. Và nếu bạn đọc comment của những người VN ở đây, bạn sẽ thấy họ ko chỉ thừa nhận suông. Rất nhiều người còn nói thêm: chúng tôi rất tiếc, tôi mong bạn có những trải nghiệm thú vị khác ở VN, chúng tôi cũng muốn giải quyết vấn đề này, vân vân. Điều đó làm xấu hình ảnh VN đi sao?
“hình như ko ai nắm đc thằng Charlie này nó đang đưa người đọc vào một nhận thức vô cùng sai lấm về VN”
Đúng, tôi không nắm được. Những gì tôi rút ra ở bải viết này là “CSGT ăn hối lộ và người dân chấp nhận trả hối lộ cho xong việc, rẻ hơn mà ko phải qua thủ tục lằng nhằng” (tôi ko thấy có chỗ nào nói đến việc người dân trả hối lộ vì cảnh sát được chính phủ bảo hộ) Bạn bảo đó là 1 nhận thức vô cùng sai lầm về VN? Sai ở đâu?
“bạn Hà An, 1 người VN chỉ biết cmt mình thích cách viết của anh ấy câu từ các kiểu”
:)) Tôi nói tôi thích cách viết, đó là sở thích cá nhân của tôi, tôi ko bắt buộc người khác phải giống tôi. Bạn nói rằng “tôi chỉ biết cmt về cách viết”, bạn muốn tôi comment thêm gì thì bạn mới hài lòng?
Nói rằng “Điều đó ko đúng”? Tôi sẽ không nói dối. Nói rằng “Đúng thì đúng, nhưng mà cũng có người này người kia”? Đã có nhiều người nói thay tôi rồi, tôi ko muốn phải nhắc lại. Nói rằng “VN còn rất nhiều điểm tốt đẹp khác mà. Mỹ cũng nhiều vấn đề lắm chứ bộ”? Thế thì giống bạn Hoài Bắc mất rồi, và tôi thì thấy cách biện hộ ấy khá vô lý và buồn cười.
Silverio20 HoaiBac Then your understanding of American police is the real problem behind this then. It’s entirely wrong.
There are very few situations where an officer is allowed to discharge their weapon in America. If there is danger to the officer or the lives of another person. That’s pretty much it. Unless you are failing to comply with a request to put down a weapon, simply telling an officer no is not going to get you shot.
Does this mean that it has never happened? Of course not. Does it mean it isn’t allowed to happen, and officers who do such things are reprimanded accordingly? Yes. Cops lose their jobs, pay fines, and go to prison when they shoot people without a life-threatening cause.
I think your understanding is limited to movies or something. I cannot imagine where you got that from.
HoaiBac You can’t pull a story of somebody doing something one time, like shooting a kid with a toy gun, and make it out to say everyone does it. You’re generalizing an entire ideology of police over a single event. Police shooting kids with toy guns? Where are you seeing this? Is it a single news story that happened a year ago or something?
Your entire view over police in America is flawed. Until you experience them, like I have yours, you can’t exactly talk with as much knowledge and experience on the topic as I am.
Does every country have its’ flaws? Of course. Nobody is denying it – and we area absolutely talking about flaws too.
Check out my politics section of the blog – I talk about all sorts of problems with America: https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/politics
What I’m doing here, is not talking about problems with Vietnam. I’m talking about a single group of people with a single set of policies that an overwhelming majority of readers are agreeing with, which is entirely based on experienced first-hand, and not what I’m reading from CNN or seeing in some Hollywood movie.
This isn’t a matter of prejudice. It’s a story based on actual experience.
MushiSmile HoaiBac “We have learned how to live with them”
Why learn to live with it? You have millions of people in your city, and the people control everything, even if you’re told otherwise. Why not make a stand for something you don’t like, instead of laying down and dealing with it.
You can be submissive if you want, but that’s not how Americans do it. We see what we don’t like, and we speak up, and act out on it for change.
LeoAurico That sucks! Just because you voice a concern about something they have the ability to double a fine? Doesn’t the police force have some sort of standard rate fee for common offenses? – For example, not wearing a seatbelt here in my state in USA is $65USD. That’s always $65, never more. Police don’t set the amount of the fines here, they simply give the tickets.
Are Vietnam police are allowed to give tickets for any amount they want?
rodeptrai95 Don’t be embarrassed about it. It isn’t your fault, nor is it in your control. This has nothing to do with how wonderful your country is, or how great the people are. It’s just about traffic police. You can’t change it alone… but with enough attention to the matter, change can happen.
VuThiVietHa Thanks for the kind words! I can’t read anything that’s written here in Vietnamese (yet), but from what I read from English comments, it seems like this issue is well recognized and accepted in Viet Nam.
anhcodon121 I wish I could translate it for you, but I don’t speak the language. The only thing I can recommend is viewing the site within Google Translate – Which I know is bad, but that’s all I can really do.
Charlie Pryor Because my english is quite poor so I can not speak much. So I will try to explain for you to understand the most concise way.
First, I would like to say thank you for our true reality in Vietnam today.
And second, if I were you I would stop explaining to @ HoaiBac because we have a country to call HoaiBac slang that young buffalo. Because they are behind a keyboard and say things like that they keep the code even though they almost but not do anything outside the house and in the li in typing or playing games online. Because they are less knowledgeable and less experienced in many lives but would love to show and great attention. If you talk to them but you talk to them which not pleasant they will argue until you can not say anything half (even though they are wrong and do not understand what your saying).
Sorry for my grammar is quite bad, hope that you will understand!
Thanks you Charlie.
Moonversion Ha_An HoaiBac aconcernedcitizen Bạn nói chuyện cứ như là bạn sống ở 1 thành phố nhỏ vậy. Bận có sống ở SG 1 thành phố lớn không???
CSGT có gọi bạn vào, bạn tự tin vì bạn đủ tuổi lái xe có đủ giấy tờ xe không phạm luật và bạn bị phạt 300 nghìn đồng vì lỗi khi CSGT gọi bạn vào bạn đã không bật đèn si nhan xin sang phía lề đường của CSGT chưa??
Hay là bạn thích sống trong 1 đất nước ăn cướp được nhà nước bảo hộ???
Bạn không muốn chính phủ nước VN tốt hơn sao ???
Hay là bạn thích cách bộ trưởng bộ y tế cãi lý là những đứa trẻ sơ sinh chết không phải lổi của bả mà là vì bậc cha mẹ không có học à???
🙂 nếu bạn trải nghiệm ngoài đời nhiều thì suy nghĩ của bạn sẽ không như bây giờ ngồi trong nhà ấn bàn phím và tưởng tượng nước VN tốt tới mức đó đâu
Shame on them !!
Charlie Pryor I see. That is a sad fact. And I’m bothered that we can’t do much to stop it…
I’m a Vietnamese student and fortunately, I haven’t got the pleasure of talking to these fine gentlemen, but I have witnessed a lot of poor souls getting fined. Apparently being a traffic policeman is one of the most profitable jobs these days, as students and their family are paying a ridiculous amount of money to get the position. Once they get there, well, it’s time to get the profit from the investment, and they tend to try to get as much as possible. The higher-ups get paid from and, therefore, support this system. They know but they don’t care. The biased political system makes these guys practically lords. There is no one else to turn to, no other party to make promises and changes. It’s a political system that everyone in it cover each other’s asses, until there’s an solid evidence that they can’t deny (like you said, video recording), but even so, the punishment for the bribe violation is very slight, the officer gets warnings, plural, or he gets transferred until everyone forget about it and he sneaks back into his previously profitable again. It’s just sad how the bullies stay rewarded and the victims stay screwed.
Charlie Pryor Pretty much, Charlie. It really depends on whether you bribe them and how much you bribe them. Sometimes they’ll take your car, unless you know someone sorta important. Sometimes they’ll let you go for some particular reasons. It really just varies depending on the situation.
And not only the traffic cops, all cops in Vietnam are just… urggg messed up.
The proof is not enought. In the first video, the car’s mistake is probably turning post-roadabout without signal. The behavior of car’s driver and the translator-woman can be submited as a briber because they trying to supply cash illegaly to the policeman.
Stop random anyone isn’t beyond the rule and legally. If you are kind person, you can continue the way without any problem. Stop random anyone help police to filter the thieves.
I agree with you that corruption in traffic-police force is still happened. But it’s not as serious as your perspective
anhcodon121 Let’s be honest man. It is a two-way thing that we bribe the cops, and the cops also ask for the money. So settle that down- the fault is at both.
But stopping random people is just stupid. Even if I am kind, I don’t have spare time to enjoy conversations with the cops if I’m not doing anything wrong. People have life and work, and they need to do their own things. I can understand if they stop someone who looks a little too serious/ crime-like, but not randomly selected citizen. Honestly, even if there are thieves on the streets, the cops barely bother to move. If they really have time and intention, please go find the real thieves who are speeding and stealing stuff on the streets. And stop wasting their time as well as people’s time. Regardless, “stop random people to filter thieves” is pretty useless and ineffective.
amieng i’m just a commenter. Not defending http://www.livefyre.com/profile/14113041/'s team or cops. I hope governor will be seen this article and start to investigate. In that case i hope you back again to VietNam to support the investigator to find out the true/false. Thanks alot
wow
that very cool about vietnam
Vietnam is a beautiful country for the tourists 🙂
“I love America more than any other country in this world; and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”
— James Baldwin
Muốn đất nước tốt lên thì phải thẳng thắn nhận những sai lầm, phanh phui cái xấu để sửa chứ không “giấu như mèo giấu cứt” vậy. Những lỗi mà khi công an đã muốn vòi tiền thì ai cũng hiểu là nộp cho nó đỡ rách việc. Mẹ tôi đã bị vòi những lỗi như “cua rộng quá”. Còn việc nộp phạt thì như hành để lần sau ai cũng muốn nộp tiền cho nó xong. Tư tưởng bảo thủ “còn hát mẹ khen hay” sẽ chẳng có chút ích lợi gì trong việc xử lý vấn đề cả, và nói thật bất kì người nào lên tiếng phê phán (không chửi rủa) đều là những người yêu nước. Có quan tâm mới trách móc, với mong muốn mọi thứ tốt đẹp hơn, nên bạn đừng vội đưa ra kết luận. Tôi nghĩ là bạn hiểu ý tôi, trừ khi từ nhỏ đến giờ bạn chưa bao giờ bị bố mẹ khiển trách.
LTDH P.s: Next time please quete and don just copy and paste my or anyone else’s comment, please. :/
Charlie Pryor Silverio20 HoaiBac Ack, my mistake then. I got this from an incident in US in which a Vietnamese student is shot in the foot for fail to comply an order by the police (Apparently when the police told him to stop and put his hands behind the back of his head, he resisted and continued to walk straight to the police. He got shot in the foot as a warning shot.
This happened a while ago (2007 or so), but I’ve drawn my conclusion about the US legal system from it. Guess I was wrong. Thank you. Now I feel much more ease with the idea of living in the US. Phew… 🙂
Oh, and Vietnamese cmts below, urr…, they start to diverse from “the trafic cops in Vietnam” to “the communist system”, some of them (the cmt and the commentators alike are also get a little xenophobic). Yikes! :/
TuongAnh you have no power here, kid.
Sorry man but not all the cops in Vietnam is like that, in my hometown- Da Nang is a different story. Anyway, seem that people accept it after all so, yeah, hate it but just live with it. Peace man.
Moonversion Che, thứ nhất, trong bất kì trường hợp nào, xin hãy tôn trọng người khác. Không giống như tiếng Anh tất cả đều bình đẳng, hệ thống ngôi thứ trong tiếng Việt có phân chía ra “lịch sự” và “không lịch sự”. Không chỉ có người Việt mới nói tiếng Việt đâu, mong bạn chú ý.
Thứ hai, mình mới là người không hiểu lí do cho sự bảo thủ đến mức cố chấp như bạn. bạn gọi những người đồng ý với anh Charlie là người không yêu nước ư? Xin lỗi bạn, tôi không đồng ý với điều đó. Bạn cũng là người Việt Nam, bạn hiểu hơn ai hết về sự quan liêu của hệ thống pháp luật Việt Nam.
Đề nghị bạn đọc lại bài viết của anh Charlie trước khi buộc tội anh ấy hướng suy nghĩ của người nước ngoài rằng cảnh sát Việt nam thế này thế nọ thế lọ thế chai. Xin nhắc bạn rằng, nếu bạn tự hào về Việt Nam, chắc bạn không phải không biết câu ngạn ngữ nổi tiếng của chúng ta “không có lửa làm sao có khói”? Nếu cảnh sát mà tốt đẹp như bạn nghĩ thì bài báo này đã chẳng bao giờ tồn tại.
Thêm nữa, chẳng ai bào chữa cho ai ở đây hết. Mọi người ủng hộ blogger này vì anh ấy nói sự thật. Người Việt mình đủ thông minh để phân biệt giữa cái giả và cái thật nhé. Nếu đây mà là một bài báo thật sự về anti Vietnam thì lời văn trong bài không được lịch sự thế này đâu.
Bạn chưa đọc hết bài báo mà đã comment, tôi chỉ trích bạn về điều đó. hiện tại bài báo đã được dịch ra tiếng Việt (hoặc ít nhất tôi đã nghe nói về điều này trên các trang báo mạng và forum khác) Đọc đi và quay lại đây để cmt như một người trưởng thành nhé.
Mai Quang Hoa đọc tới đây éo chịu đc nữa. Dân mình xài đồ trung quốc bậy bạ là do dân buôn nhà mình tham, nhập đồ bậy về nhé, tụi trung quốc bên kia xài hàng khác hẳn đấy. Thứ 2 là ở Nam Định, hay 1 số tỉnh thành địa phương nào đó thì có thể công an oke nhưng ở hà nội, sài gòn hay những chỗ bự bự thì công an sẽ khác, tất nhiên khách du lịch quốc tế đổ về chỗ nổi tiếng để chơi rồi ===> họ thấy, họ cảm nhận và họ nói, em có quyền nói họ thì họ cũng có quyền nói những thứ họ nghĩ. Thứ 3 là em nên học chút tiếng anh và chút tôn trọng với người lớn chút. Thứ 4, ko định nói đâu nhưng dân chủ nhà mình hơn bị “này kia”, em phải đi ra thì mới thấy, thật. Thân, chúc em mau lớn.
As a COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICER, I felt ashamed for those Vietnam Law Enforcement Personnel, can not compare the 2 jobs between Vietnam and here but i think the Vietnamese cops can not do anything else beside take the money from citizen and punish them. And i was born in Vietnam too!!!
Not all are like this my friend. And beside, these guys can have some very logcal arguments for their actions. Indeed that they are heavily corrupted, but we also have to minds our driving to not let out any chance for them to take us down. These guys are opportunistics.
KhuongNguyen Don’t be biased man. Return to Vietnam someimes and go to Da Nang, you will find good cops there.
HoaiBac That’s because you haven’t live here for awhile and you don’t know what the rules are. Over here in the US, you cant ever tell whats gonna to happen next, the police officer try to protect themselves because they have their family, married, son, daughter. Think about that before you speak man, try to put yourself into that situation and figure it out how you going to feel and what you going to do to control the situation.
And no offense, but the way you wrote this is completely one-sided. You must had a damn terrible day with thses dude to be this pissed off.
Nguyen Hoai Dang Khoa Cuongkoihb come on man, the guy said his english is not good, so don’t be such an ass man. You know all to well that not all traffic cops are corrupted. Not thing is absolute.
In business is almost the same anywhere anyway. China has this worse than VIetnam.
Tung Bui KhuongNguyen yeah i know, im just talking about this article my friend!!!
Tung Bui KhuongNguyen and i truly believed that there are so many good cops is still out there!!!
Firstly, I wonder what would you do if you ‘re one of them ? You may do some better stuffs, huh ? You can make profit, why wouldn’t do so ? Everyone needs to live and I am sure you won’t hate it when you ‘re one of those “clowns” . Beside, It ‘s your fault not knowing the rules so you can’t stance any chance agains them and get your ass smited.
Secondly, not unti your body makes a French kiss with the road and your head gets crushed hitting the pavement can you realize that there is safety risk here.
Its really boring about transport in VietNam .Bribery always has everywhere.everyone in VietNam is miserable in thier life…
This has been going on for decades, nothing new. It is systematic corruption. Their boss take a cut too, and their boss’ boss, and so on and so on.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience in Vietnam but I don’t think what you said reflects the whole story. You see, Vietnam’s big cities are really very crowded and badly planned therefore traffic is always a nightmare. As a result EVERYONE bends the rules to get from point A to point B. The cops will never run out of bad drivers to pull over so I don’t think they would pull over an innocent one out of millions just to get a few bucks.
I can guarantee you EVERYONE they pull over will want to cut a deal, thus perpetuating the system of corruption. Instead of paying 1000, they will cry and cry in order to pay 500. What this means is someone ELSE will have to pay another 500 so that the state can recuperate the loss. Where this leads to, I’ll leave it to your imagination.
Thank you, and God bless.
Bei Shen How is that not the whole story ? Actually if he didn’t pour out these words, you could just simply put Traffic police in Vietnam in a nutshell = CORRUPTION
And nope.Actually they do.When they’re too desperate, they pull anyone.It doesn’t matter whether you right /wrong or rich/poor.How do I know ? Speaking from experience obviously.My friend and I went on a quite shitty bike, mind you, you could call it’s a total disposable junk but guess what ? We were still being pulled over.Reason: No reason needed.Either you pay or you’d get held up.And being a cheapo as we are, my friend blatantly threw his license toward him and said that was the only thing he carried and if they want the money, fine, wait 30′ until he gets home and shove it up their ass.If you can’t wait, just take the damn bike.Only then, we were free to go and that police man said sth like ” okay , piss off along with some cursing words I couldn’t recall.So the problem is if you’re ”innocent’ enough, you will stop and be exploited.They can’t stop you as long as you didn’t look right into their eyes and acknowledge the thing they’re doing.
In the end , everyone wants to cut the ordeal by bribing because they know damn well how tedious process they have to go through to get the paper works done in VN.We ain’t choose to perpetuate the system,we are forced to follow the pattern it sets ! There was never any choice.
Tang Chi Uy Thanks for stopping in and reading what I had to say!
Charlie Pryor I’ll share this article over the internet, I hope it will be translated correctly soon! Thank you very much!
Those cop have none talent, 80% percent of them got that jobs because their family has well relationships
Charlie Pryor LeoAurico Pulling over random people just like their part time job to earn extra money , i think there is only one city in Viet Nam has good cops: Da Nang
Hi Mr Charlie,
I would like to say as a reader. This is an honest and true look into one of the worst problems of the country. We have to look at this from all angles of judgement. Well, we have law enforcement corruption that is nurtured by its leaders, and also the very bad awareness of the people who are driving out there. And the traffic law enforcement take advantadge of the little traffic knowledge of the people to bully or scare them to get some money.
Hey Charlie, dont just compare VN with the U.S. Its for sure a way far differrent from where we are to where you are of development.
Its all about awareness and mindset of the people. It takes time to grow.
No-one or nowhere on Earth is perfect. But Thanks anyway for saying the truth.
You have raised a well concerned topic for people to comment and argue.
Oh Charlie, you dont see the real picture, you just point your view as a corner and think ’bout it as bad as you wanna to. Those guys ‘re not that bad. They do their job, and their job may cause inconvenient for somebody but hey, it’s the job that someone need to do. Beside, we got so many traffic police that would willing to offer help for an old woman want to cross a crow street. So please dont talk about them like they are all like some kind of “evil” cop and wont do any good for the public. Our country wont accept anyone like that has the right to stand on the street with an uniform, judge and take money from us 🙂 We are a country that would be like any country on this world, will have bad cops and good cops 🙂
Ha_An Moonversion Hiểu rồi người yêu nước ạ :))
bkfreeze069 Moonversion Ha_An HoaiBac aconcernedcitizen
Đèn xi nhang 50k xử phạt hành chính đồ ngu ạ, và ko cần thiết phải để cho mọi người biết mày là dân tỉnh lẻ đâu, chỉ có mấy thằng tỉnh lẻ mới dùng từ “thành phố nhỏ” “thành phố lớn” khi ở VN nhé, Bố sống ở SG cả đời bố rồi con ạ, thích thì inbox riêng bố cho số nhà đến bố chỉ cho cách sống ở SG lolz lảm nha lảm nhảm
@Charlie
I have no problem if you wrote about the fact, but you choose a bad way.
“Cops here can and will stop anyone, for any reason, or no reason at all.
This is permitted by law, the way the system is currently set up”. This is your statement, I wonder what smoke did you have when you write this. May be they do differently in your country. And it’s just only one example that make me don’t like you article. There are many others but I don’t want to make it too long here.
Then in other reply to me you talk about your American way. I’m as a Vietnamese was so irritated reading that. Many others Vietnam would feel the same. American is just a kind of people, you have your way and we Vietnamese have our way, it never have a never will be the same. We know what is good way for us because it’s Vietnamese culture, it last for thousand years that could not be changed in short term. Could take a hundred years. And we don’t need a young guy from some where come to tell us what to do. If you really want to do it in good manner, learn Vietnamese way first.
You live in Rome, act like a Roman. You are living in Vietnam (Ha Noi probably) now, I guess, act like a Vietnamese. You won’t feel any good if you are different. I’m sure that you crossed the red light sometime, no helmet riding bike, walk across the street somewhere but not in the zebra line like any other Vietnamese etc and you are happy with that. Let’s just enjoy yourself living here in Vietnam, I’m sure that Vietnam is one of the most beautiful countries in the would. Leave the traffic Police problem to us, we will solve it better soon than later.
bkfreeze069 well said boy. Really impressive. Maybe you can not understand what you write.
Moonversion Tôi thích cách nói chuyện, cách trả lời của bạn Hoài Bắc hơn kiểu nói chuyện của bạn :)) Dù ko biết bạn hiểu cái gì nhưng bạn khen tôi yêu nước thì tôi cũng vui lòng nhận :v Tôi nghĩ là tất cả nhưng người VN ở đây, dù quan điểm thế nào cũng đều là người yêu nước cả :3
And normal police, to tell the true, are even worse. They dont even care if some thugs are beatting you in front of their face, if you dont pay them money. The only exception is that you were murdered or raped, and they only care when u’re already murdered or raped. I swear if the law and the gun doesnt protect them, i’ll bang them in the ass of every single police i see in days with an dirty iron stick. THey dont protect us, all they do are taking money from us and do nothing
HoaiBac I think you’re taking this entirely the wrong way. I’m making a comparison to gage understanding, not telling you what to do. I don’t understand your frustration, but with that, I also really don’t care at this point either.
@ HoaiBac .Stop denying of what is happening in Vietnam and trying
to defend the corrupted system in a very childish way.I am a Vietnamese and I can tell everyone up
here that whatever Mr. Pryor wrote in the article is a 100% truth, and in fact,
it is even worst than what he saw. Last
month, my girlfriend got pulled over by these sharks, and they asked her to
give them money or get a traffic ticket.She was so mad because she did not violate any traffic laws, so she told
them to give her the ticket which cost more than twice the money they asked her
for bribe.And you know what they told
her?They said: “ Why are you so
mad?Common, this is just coffee
money.”They actually asked her a few
times and tried to give her a hint that they only take less than half of the
ticket if she pays them up straight. However,she was so pissed so she refused to bribe them and she ended up with the
ticket.For those of you who are saying
this article is exaggerated, stop lying to yourself and stop trying to defend
the corrupted law enforcement system in Vietnam.If you love your country and want it to get
better then stop tolerating this type of acts and behaviors.
To Mr. Pryor:
Thank you for your article. Your article speaks the very truth of what is
happening daily in Vietnam. I hope someday you can film and write about
the bribes that occur at the Tan Son Nhat airport. I wish I
have time to write about this because I feel that the best way to put a
stop to these acts is to let the world know about it.
Charlie Pryor LeoAurico Yes Charlie, the Vietnamese police can fine you any amount they want. You argue with them, you might need to pay more. You drive nice car, you look rich, you need to pay more. In Ban Me Thuoc, many of the polices let you go for free if you are a pretty girl, but you have to give them your number, and they call right away to check if it is indeed your number. Welcome to a communist country.
LennyLibraScale No wonder Vietnam is always a poor, uncivilized country because of people like you with this type of attitude : ” if you can’t change something, you have to accept it.”
Vietnamese guys, would you agree a fact that Policemen never stop people on the street for a wrong reason? True! Some of my friends try to defend like: “oh I just pass the red light in a hot weather and no one is on the street”, some says “I do not wear helmet because I just go to the supermarket near hear” or “I turn right without warning light but i don’t think it’s necessary”… In this case, the wrong point is from residents, not from police. There is a fact that many Vietnamese people do not understand / know the law, so they blame it on the police
The matter comes after is from police, I agree. But citizens (drivers, motor riders) choose to bribe police for their (driver’s) own benefits, because the penalty by law is much higher than the money they give the police (for example the amount for one red light pass is around VND 400.000 plus many other penalty terms, but they choose to give the police around VND 200.000 to ignore their faults). So it’s so biased if you say 100% fault belongs to the police.
@ Charlie: sometime I wonder why a guy with good helmet, riding on the right line, is still stopped by the police. I ask my friend who works for the Security department, he says: ” There are many reasons to stop a guy on the street,. Because that guy passed the red light from the previous intersection, and run away from the police there; because he was reported to carry prohibited item (guns, drugs,…); or he just stolen something on the street and the policemen from different corners have to cooperate to catch him..” So don’t judge something if you do not understand the system, the culture or have a general picture of whole thing.
If you have any creditable proof to defend your view it would be different. So many before you said the same thing, every single one of them got denied by others own experience. Just because you haven’t encounter them yet doesn’t mean they aren’t there. It is true that sometimes the citizen may be the one at fault, but other times they don’t. Most of these cases occur in some cities only though. But in the cases where the driver is at fault, many of them could be described as nitpicking, and the fault is so minor they could simply be overlooked but instead of doing so the polices consider that as a way to make money. And the needlessly troublesome procedure is on their side.
CaKheoBikDi please.. It is quite obviously that what the author indicated is damn straight the picture of a corrupted system in Vietnam as we are talking. Generally speaking, yes, those suited guys are doing their jobs pointing out the fault of citizen with their traffic roles. However, they are taking advantage of their right to pull over people as an opportunity to make end meets. The truth is the reasons for them stopping your vehicle is sometimes needlessly to be considerated, or minor mistakes. However making a fuss out of each problem and they earn enough money for a meal and more. Apparently the temptation of making money blurred their vision on what they are being a pain in the ass to the citizens. I accept your points that they are also contributing to keep people safe driving and etc.. But looking at the amount of those who really have the tendency of dedicating themselves to their job and help people, it’s sadly that the counting can easily be done with our fingers.
aconcernedcitizen If your follow the rules on the street (riding bike on the right line, at acceptable speed, not cross the red light, wear acceptable helmet (some helmets are not allowed use), have warning signs before turn right or left… police can not stop you (except some other cases I mentioned above). I was stopped several times because I didn’t notice the signs, or the signs were hard to realize (traffic signs. warning signs in Vietnam are somewhat stupid), but I can not blame it on the police. When they stopped me, they showed me the documents that described the penalty. Well after reading those legal documents, I chose to give them some money rather than gave the Government 3 times of that amount plus my license would be hold for 1 month. I, or any citizens who act like that, contribute to the corruption and the bad thing as you see.
If any police stops you for non sense, you have right to reject any fine ticket. Even if you are wrong, but you find the policeman is drunk or behave wrongly, you have right to defend him some ways (for example, both can go to the police office). Few police can stop you that way, and few citizens do it right way. The point I want to make clear with the article here is it’s so negative for the whole scene. It lets readers make mistake of the picture. I agree that there is corruption, there is dark side, but not wholly from the system, residents also contribute to it by their action towards the rules.
Of course when 50-80% of drivers/ riders don’t get the rules, ignore the rules, when the rules are sometimes not clear (unfortunately), and the fine is so high, it’s a promising for making money for the police, but in one side can reduce the amount of penalty for the drivers. Well, the smoke comes after the fire.
aconcernedcitizen Another point – the traffic in Vietnam is terrible, one minor mistake can affect the whole road (terrible traffic jam). If you notice during peak time, police ignore many driver’s faults. Many of us drive on wrong line, not allowed street, turn right and left without signs, ride… Just sit down for 2 hours you can see a lot of faults, but the police ignore a lot to make sure the traffic is smooth. If they just care about money, they can earn a lot i am sure.
ThaoTep : At first, I agree with your opinions, but I think it’s just a part of the whole of the story. Do you know in the road, example 1A highway or others highway of the provinces in our nation, The police may stop any cars if they want, although there’s no signal show that these car were made a mistake. After stopped a car, the policemen would grill the drivers for the mistakes to require them give money. Usually, the truck drivers always give money for the policemen to continue their trip, these money called “law money”.In return, the policemen ignore their faults example unsafe conditions of the trucks, over weight carrying….These things increase accident risk, destroy the roads. So, I think the opinions of Charlie are true, even the reality is worse.
HoangDanh Oh I partly agree with the article, but I disagree with the conclusion and the judgement. As the article just mention the bad side, I want to make some points clear for the whole scene.
As I know from my experience, cars are stopped on 1A highway street mostly due to exceeded speed and driving on the wrong line (not at the time the driver was stopped, but the fault might be from 1-5 km before). Your speed or your fault is recorded by street camera, or by hidden police, then you drive for 5km and are suddenly stopped by traffic police. Some police must be hidden because when the drivers know where policemen are, the drivers will warn each other by some special signals. (well drivers are so smart to distort the rules too).
And even the cars do not exceed speed, they can be reported to carry prohibited items and then are stopped to check. We see from outside, sometimes we don’t know what really happen inside. So we can not say it’s police making money, or they are on duty. We just GUESS, and judge.
About the truck with exceeded weight, the bus/coach carry more number of people than allowance, of course the police will stop them (how can police ignore the opportunity to earn money from such kind of big fault). As you pass the red light in the city, you bribe the police to reduce the amount of money you have to give the Government, the case here is the same. The coach drivers/ truck drivers bribe the police this way. The bad is from both truck drivers and the police, same as from both citizens and the police.
I contribute a part of the story to say the article just mentions something in a bad way purely, like all the faults belong to the police. I witness many police are so kind to help old people walking across the street, eager to show you the way if your are lost, stand on the street under 39-42 celcius degree 8 hours to control the traffic, and stand in the middle of traffic jam even under raining without raincoat…
I had bad experience with them before, and I use to complain a lot when I was catch. But when I read an article written from a traffic police, who witness many accidents, many young deaths per day, due to resident’s ignorance towards the rules, I started to see the whole picture, and ask myself who are wrong first. Society turn to bad not from one group, but from all of us too. The police, as teachers, as doctors or many other occupations, there are good and bad people. How can we keep shouting at a whole group of people, complaining, blaming, judging them all blindly and negatively like that? If you see from news nowadays, people prefer to read the bad news (about murder, corruption, rape, bad celebrities), prefer to complain, to blame, to agree to the negative side rather than positive side, the whole society is seen in a very bad way even it’s not that bad. When negative writings appear a lot, they distort the whole scene. I disagree with this article because of that.
P/s: And by the way, many of examples about police’s bad behaviors as I read online are NOT from the teller’s experience, but from teller’s friends, teller’s friend’s friend’s experience. The stories from friends of friends can be distorted some ways, because we (as normal people) don’t want to accept the fact that we are wrong first, and we act wrongly according to the law too.
HoangDanh Agree with you. It’s unusual for the police to stop bikes for no reason. But they’ll do that for cars and trucks.
Try driving in Hcm city in a car from another province. I’m sure you will get pulled over. Also even if you can argue it out most of the time you won’t have the time to spare. From what I was told they would even accept just 20k if you make them think you don’t carry much money (if you’re riding a normal bike). They still have to fulfill their jobs, but will take any chances to make money.
That is normal, you can travel to some other countries and you will see that too, perhaps in another Situations. It’s just worse in Vietnam.^^!
Tung Bui I know what you mean, sir. But as a person that have live for 21 years under the protection of our dear POLICEMAN, all VNese hate them especially those who have low salary. They have to pay the tax to pay for POLICEMAN, and also bribe them after they have been fed by people’s money.
Police is a person with a task to prevent accident in the name of the law, not the call of the money which they used to get into that position.
Charlie Pryor Please sir, the person who say those words to you is no more than a D of the COMMUNIST PARTY, which those cops you so angry about work for… so don’t mind what he said
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153030044685620&set=a.10151333017390620.561958.35182380619&type=1&relevant_count=1
This is the picture taken on 09/07/2014, Kon Tum province, the reason why these people so pissed at Mr. Policeman here, was that he after two person for a small foul and almost cause a horrible accident. All thing only settle when more cops came.
What you say is truly right, so don’t mind what other people say, especially good word which used to defend for these kind of action, a D of COMMUNIST PARTY.
P/s: if you want to know what mind could create this, I suggest that you look for: “Crime of the COMMUNIST against the rest of the world” something far more disturbing than Fascism.
This sort of reflects on how corrupt Vietnam is. My uncle needed to go to the doctor so my mom sent him money for the doctor’s visit and medicine AND money for a BRIBE! If he didn’t have bribe money, my mom said he wouldn’t be able to see a doctor for months!
very sad to hear that
i know it terrible but u sympathize with them because their life in VN is hard
they stand out all time, breath air polution even skin cancers by UV
i don’t know the money what they use but the consequence they suffer is serious
(sorry for my bad E, i just told u things have two faces )
The conditions a person is in, and lives through, makes their actions understandable – but not correct or allowable. The situation doesn’t start with police. It starts with higher government
Moonversion Lại một loại vô học nữa xuất hiện, nói được vài câu không cãi được người ta thì chửi, không khác gì loại đầu đường xó chợ
ThaoTep It’s quite another story on the highway. The cops can stop you for no reason.
TuoiNgo That sucks! Sorry to hear that.
I’ve heard similar things. Thank you for sharing.
Charlie Pryor TheEninamm All Country are beautiful! but depend on the people (Goverment)
YeuxOntVuParis His entire “act like a Roman in Rome, act like a Vietnamese in Vietnam” logic is extremely flawed. This is fundamentally telling me that to be Vietnamese, is to be corrupt. I don’t believe that is true at all, and if I am going to just “go with the system” – then I am endorsing and supporting that behavior. I simply will not do that. I completely understand his logic, coming from a person who supports the current corrupt system. That’s the difference between myself and him – I stand against what’s wrong… and he’s either too scared to do it, or he’s on the wrong side. Either way, his opinions and thoughts are going to meet opposition.
That’s suck.. I have been in San francisco for 25 years ..My last trip to VietNam 16 years ago, 70% percent i really don’t want to visiting my home land ( Saigon) Don’t give me wrong.. I still missing my country but i Hate corruption, bribery in Viet Nam..It is funny when i said that. Because i was a victim right at Tan Son Nhat Airport… That ‘s communist … But i’m sure u had good and bad time over there.. some of video is very cool -Thank you ..http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/05/half-of-vietnamese-companies-admit-they-bribe-officials/
Charlie Pryor YeuxOntVuParis You really disappointed me, Charlie. I don’t need to mention @YeuOntVuParis a failed product with his comment. You make so big assumption in “to be Vietnamese is to be corrupt” that’s really disappointed. I thought you have a good vision with you but finally, you are just same as some “children” in this chat room make emotion comment. Read through all of my comment and try to understand before making conclusion. Don’t ever make assumption, especially for big issue.
HoaiBac You are either trolling me now, or you don’t understand English. You’re missing the entire part where I’m comparing what you said, to that very statement. I specifically followed it with “I don’t believe that is true at all.”
Either pay attention and use facts, or get out.
Charlie Pryor HoaiBac No, Charlie, I don’t need to troll you, that no fun. But if you say so, I have no further comment. But anyway, sorry for missing your important part of your statement, it’s misleading.
Only one thing I want to stress is don’t make it political issue. There are some guys away make political statement here, that’s not good. Corruption have nothing to do with politic, it’s more culture (if you have a bit knowledge of Vietnam, thing like what you see happened the same in our long history).
This is just a normal conversation, no need to be angry, we should discuss in peaceful manner. 🙂
Either you have a lousy way to explain your opinion or you’re simply unable to understand others.
Also don’t judge and insult others with your childlike manners. People have their own opinion, learn to respect it, everyone read your argument yet no-one ever insulted you because they think differently. You have no rights to either denying others view and opinion nor to judge. And, atm you are just representing the impolite part of Vietnam, don’t worsen his view toward us.
HoaiBac No one needs to make it a political issue because it is about politics itself. I dont know why you can say its all about culture. No nation is born with cheating and bribery culture. Its always about if the system allows ppl to do so or not. Corruption has nothing to do with culture at all. But it can be a habit. While culture is collective, habit is personal. So its always about our choice. We cannot blame others for our wrong doing. Tough situation and low wage is never an excuse for taking money from other’s pocket in such disgusting manner. In this case, low sense of ethics is a much better excuse.
HoaiBac It absolutely is political, and the political system. Corruption doesn’t occur on a cultural level as you say it does. To say it’s your culture is to say that it is a natural part of your people’s way of life… which is to call your people corrupt. That is exactly what I’m saying isn’t true. It absolutely is governmental, and it absolutely is political. If you cannot see it, you either choose not to see it as a member of the communist party yourself (who is benefiting from the corrupt system directly), or you’re choosing not to see it out of some sense of pride.
Regardless of why you don’t see it, it exists. That’s the beautiful part about facts. They exist regardless of your belief in them.
I absolutely am discussing in a peaceful manner. When you take and put words in my mouth, and claim I’m saying things that you are saying already instead, you’re perpetuating the very propaganda that you claim I should “just go with,’ something I refuse to do.
Corruption has everything to do with politics. It is government, not people, at its core.
Charlie Pryor Now it become big issue. May be you have not heard but corruption really has nothing to do with politic. In any system you can see corruption. I don’t want to take it as excuse but I have to be conscious. If you read my comment from the beginning, you will see my opinion are consistent, that the problem with police is more culture than politic. To make a conversation over it is really hard, not only you and me, it’s global argument, but I try to make my point short and clear.
Politic and corruption is like “chicken and egg”, which one cause the other. My point corruption is nature. Vietnamese normally want to solve things easy, no headache, no argument and better for them, then they can compromise. European, they will argue until end if that not their fault (Anglo and German is harder in this sense, Latin may be less). So, if Vietnamese will act like European, we don’t need to worry about bribe or corruption. Take, in your video, what happen if every one will not accept to pay bribe, argue as hard as they can. There won’t be any more bribe.
Your point is obvious, but it not the way I agree. In fact, I don’t hate the police, I hate ourselves making the deal with them. That ruin their moral. I hope this clear the air now.
Anyway, I would discuss with you more openly another time. And don’t bother with some young boy’s comment here, they are not mature enough.
HoaiBac the only person here I’m no longer going to bother with is you. You’re accepting the situation as a cultural problem, refusing to understand where incentive comes from. Where the reward comes from. You’re blind to acknowledge actual cause and effect, relying solely on the effect as if it’s simply nature. You’re absolutely wrong, and continuing to allow your comments here is purely a choice of free speech… because without that ‘moral’ in me, I’d have already marked you a bozo and hide everything forever.
Don’t try to defend your damn government. It isn’t going to happen, nor is it ever going to be followed. If you want to remain ignorant to facts, that’s cool. Here though, on my blog, you’re absolutely going to be blasted for it. There is no ‘chicken and egg’ with corruption in politics. One doesn’t cause the other… they are two unique properties that are married to each other in Vietnam and around the world.
Every single time you say this is a cultural problem, and blame the people for it instead of the actual people responsible, you purposely perpetuate lies. I won’t stand for it anymore, and further crap like that is going to get a bozo mark on your name from now on here.
aconcernedcitizen He isn’t making my view of Vietnam worse. He’s making my view of him worse. I’m able to recognize when a problem is throughout a group, and when it’s solely an individual. This guy is doing everything he can to defend his communist government – and he’s very close to just having everything he says banned from the page as a result. The only reason I don’t yet is because he has yet to insult anyone – and unlike his government, I still firmly believe in freedom of speech.
Charlie Pryor Ha, look like you lost you cool. Thanks for that. If you cannot stand the others’ ideas that different from yours, you are not worth discussion. You should book your ticket soon and flight back. I did try to be reasonable to you, but it was really not worthy. Good bye.
HoaiBac trying is much different than doing. There’s no loss of “cool” here either. I’m simply telling you to stop trying to defend your communist government while blaming the people. It’s a pretty simple request you have yet to abide by.
So yes… do leave.
Charlie Pryor HoaiBac Or he could be a person that works for communist gov which their work is comments on internet to protect and say good thing about communist on internet.
There are really have this kind of jobs in Viet Nam. If you take that job. The Communist gov will pay you to say good about them on the internet. Specially on Facebook.
c1thanhson have you ever traveled to any other country to saying that?
Very well said Charlie, and very exactly
On behalf of The Better Rest of VNmese, I’d like to apologize deeply. Please accept!
DanielCao You don’t have to apologize. This isn’t your fault, or the fault of your people. It’s become a politically acceptable form of behavior that is rewarded instead of crucified. I don’t blame the people of Viet Nam. I blame your government and their officials who perpetuate the system.
I’m sorry, my english is very bad
That is the truth, and not have a good reason for that may cover such actions, they have lost dignity and self-esteem.
I think, it share can to change or not.
Thank for posting !!! i agreed with you about this. Many VNmese hated them – bad police -not only you
I never ever ask someone to be decent to them . So you can puch at that pig face anytime you feel angry .
ThaoTep I guess you might be a close relative to a traffic policeman. You have the right to defend the system, but you cannot prevent people from hating the system. In this case, I am sorry but there are far many people feel the same way like Charlie. Near 80 million people can be wrong, but the point is not about right or wrong. It is about how the system is hated.
Charlie might not know every story, but he is damn right at this: “Make no mistakes about it people: traffic police in Vietnam are not *people*. They are as valuable to society as rats in the sewers… In fact, worse than the rats, since the rats stay out of sight and don’t affect me at all.”
What’s good are “traffic police” to this country? None. Do they help people to traffic better? Nope. Do they help stopping street thugs? Nope (it’s another but more professional police force doing this task). Sometimes, they actually do good deeds like resolving traffic jams, helping some people, but they are not essentially reasons to maintain this corrupted force.
If it is Korea, the prime minister might disband this rotten system in less than a day.
We call them with other name: Yellow Fish.
I’m reading it in English and was never aware of a Vietnamese version but excuse me for being a little bitchy for a minute
You call yourselves “Travelers”, while you are just a simple minded tourists. You stay here for weeks, or maybe months, but act like you’ve seen so clearly through our whole nation.
Yes, some are corrupted, and I’m telling you I hate being pulled over by traffic police too. But most of the time, they can do that because you did something wrong, minor, but still wrong. You don’t know that because you are too used to “crossing a little line” or “skipping on or two redlight because noone was there”. If you have the right license and did nothing wrong, you can go, yes, that happened, SURPRISED?? And did you realize the time it takes to “legally” pay all the fine? And to say that paying on the spot is “bribing”, they’re doing you a favor if you ever had to go through all the process yourselves.
If you’re going to have a freaking rant about my country on your “travel” blog, be specific, when and where you were pulled over, please dont rant about my country because you were pulled over ONCE, because obviously you did overspeed. 2km more is still overspeed, and I pity you for saying “we over speed for just 2km”. Here in Vietnam everybody can drive a bike, meaning a 13 years old boy or a man who knows nothing about driving laws and doesn’t have a license can roam the street, and to be equal to that they have more traffic police, makes sense, if they are fined and taken off the street it’s even better. If you make a mistake and they give you a fine, LEARN THE LESSON!
And you common Vietnamese people who comment “Yes we hate them too/Yes our life is miserable and the government is taking all our money” and shits, move out of my country then, go study overbroad, where it’s all fancy and free and you can do whatever you want. If you happened to see them chasing irresponsible and drunken drivers or taking down thieves, you’ll realize they probably kick more asses than you’ve ever could.
The ones taking down thief and protecting our life is not the traffic police. Also I reserve the right to respect those who fulfill their job as well as to judge those who don’t. And please, they take advantage of everything that could cause the fault. They hide behind city sign that limit the speed from 80 to 50 km/h to pull over those who couldn’t slow down fast enough. They lurks around slightly downward terrain that tend to give a couple extra km/h. And also under 10% speed is a minor fault, no-one can accurately adjust their speed, and could an extra 2 km/h really cause any accident?
Also because they take bribes they’re not doing their job properly. They bug citizens while also let truck drivers be able to roam the street freely. Read the news, trucks causes lots of accident, overweight, and so on. Yet they are still operating freely, whose fault do you think this belongs to?
And about studying overboard, lol, you really expect anyone who can wouldn’t do so? And “my country” what’s with the attitude, we all judge because we love our country. Otherwise why bother wasting time arguing with those who defends it flaws, and also who give you the rights to decide if others are worthy of living here?
NNHuynh There is no way I’d ever give specific details about where I’m pulled over. Law enforcement and government officials (who have already taken notice to this piece, further acknowledging the factual references within it) already have plenty of access to my travels and my identity… I’d rather not give too many specifics to endanger my family (who lives in Viet Nam).
That being disclosed, this isn’t so much a tourist’s point of view as much as it is a regular traveler. I don’t visit the tourist areas of your country, and am not subject to the propaganda associated with international information. I’m directly exposed to residential way of life, regularly subjected to the terms of life in Viet Nam from a resident perspective, not just a tourist perspective.
In conclusion, I’ll also reiterate that you don’t know what happened with my experiences, just as I don’t know what happens with yours. However, it’s abundantly clear that among the THOUSANDS of responses from articles around the world regarding this story, an overwhelming majority agree with me about this being a problem.
“But most of the time, they can do that because you did something wrong, minor, but still wrong”
You can verify this with evidence? You have in-depth knowledge of the traffic police force? You cannot make a blank claim as to “most” of their activity without an insight privy to insiders. Either you’re saying things you cannot support with evidence, or you have a bias with this matter and that’s what motivates your thoughts on the subject. Either way, the credibility of your statement is low enough to mute you entirely.
NNHuynh Another thing I’d like to add here, is that you’re misinterpreting what this is all really about. It has nothing to do with “your country” as a whole, nor your people. To take any offense to this is silly, unless you’re related to police.
https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/translation-problems-answering-questions-vietnamese/: https://charliepryor.wpmudev.host/translation-problems-answering-questions-vietnamese/
Let’s me show you a trick!
Ask any Vietnamese in the city: “What is the first thing comes up their mind when mentioning about traffic police? ”
They would say: “Bribery”
You appeared to be logical and well documented the incidents.Hence it is beyond reasonable doubts to surmise that you are biased in your blog.
In Korea and the U.K. where I have lived and worked, cameras are installed along the highways and the GPS in the cars are configured to remind drivers where the cameras are, your current speed, and the speed limit.It will beep at you when you are over-speeding. If the driver ignores the warning, his car will be caught on candid camera and will receive a ticket to be sent to his home.What are the purposes of traffic laws?
First, the traffic laws are designed to deter and ensure traffic safety but not to penalize violators unless they adamantly want so after repeated warnings. Secondly, the traffic laws are not designed to be an instrument to raise tax revenue, neither that nor the limitless allowances for the law enforcers. Thirdly, the traffic laws are not designed to create hassles to the drivers.If you have driven through Golden Meadow, LA, you would better slow down to the traffic limit. You will be stopped and ticketed even if you are 1 mile over posted speed limit.But the troopers in that little city stretch never ask nor take bribery. My colleagues and I all knew and experienced that when passing through that little town!To them, the las is the law. To the CSGT, the laws mean…money (not safety!)
Were the traffic safety improved in Vietnam? Show me the numbers! Were drunk driving accidents reduced in Vietnam? Show me the numbers! One more common excuse that Vietnamese used to take when they are being accused / alleged or proven guilty is that people from other countries are guilty as hell so why they are singled out. If policemen in other countries are not perfect, the CSGT are not perfect, hence do not single them out. Well…this is called shXX-eating-child syllogism in which almost many kids can eat shXX, he is a kid, it is ok for him to eat shxx too! Apparently this kind of logic appears to be from a child or childish adult. One will never improve until accepting the cause of the illnesses.
Charlie Pryor This is just one of hundred masterful management skills of current government. And that’s what you call communism. If you’re living there as a Vietnamese you’ll be so shock so many time till you get used to it. You then have two choices to make to better your life as a Vietnamese. Choice one: Get out of the country legally and illegally. Hundreds of thousand have been doing it. Choice two: You have to live with it and dream every day for democracy.
These police that you videotaped are not allowed to keep all the bribes for themselves. The team will have to hand in a fixed amount to their boss back in the office. Based on experience, back in the office they know what bribe target is appropriate and it’s seasonal. For example, during the Lunar New Year, you should expect to see more such “setup camps” since the staffs are pushed to earn more (they all need to spend more for the holiday, too).
There were Vietnamese news articles exposing the fact that: there are “plain-clothes random men” who regularly showed up and beat up motorcylists after they successfully reasoned/argued with the police and could get away without paying. No doubt the traffic police have such support staff, since it’s not quite right beating up people openly on the street while you’re in uniforms.To a local Vietnamese, what you wrote here is ancient news; but thanks for expressing the frustration anyway.
Charlie Pryor NNHuynh
Charlie, NNHuynh is not misinterpreting you! He/she is obviously either ignorant or affiliated with the police or government. As a Vietnamese American who has visited VN many times and still has family over there, I can tell you that you haven’t either scratched the surface. The police and government agencies over there are either corrupt or narcissistic.
I want to believe there still some good police out there but haven’t see anyone….